carrier motor master 3 problems

[mikeacman]

I have a carrier motor master 3

magnetek 3p-vs1 which requires the VS-101 motors which I have.

I have an issue I have seen before and cannot remember the cause.

The thermister is good

At a certain resistance range ,which equals around 80F, the fans do not turn ,they just shake really bad and make a god awful noise . I can short the resistor so they run full speed and the motors appear fine.

I know someone else has encountered this .

Yes ,I know they are junk .....noy going to put mm5 on either . I want to know why...


Thanks

[mikeacman]

I talked to magnetek...

One or more triacs out of adjustment ....not field adjustable ....device is garbage

[Dallas Duster]

Sure why???

I have a carrier motor master 3

magnetek 3p-vs1 which requires the VS-101 motors which I have.

I have an issue I have seen before and cannot remember the cause.

The thermister is good

At a certain resistance range ,which equals around 80F, the fans do not turn ,they just shake really bad and make a god awful noise . I can short the resistor so they run full speed and the motors appear fine.

I know someone else has encountered this .

Yes ,I know they are junk .....noy going to put mm5 on either . I want to know why...


Thanks

[mikeacman]

Sure why???

I'm not sure what you mean ?

Do you have an answer? Or am I not clear?

I spoke with magnetek and they told me why it was doing this . I also spoke to carrier tech support and they didn't know . I also questioned the application and it was researched by carrier and I was told this is a valid option for the unit in question .

This unit has had 4 of these in two years .

I triple checked the installation and all appears correct . Yes , we are using the vs101 motors

This is on a HJD025 500 series running 208vac.

I can't get a good answer ,good enough for me ,and I'm thinking were going to have to go to something else . I have an email in with a tech support person who has promised to research this for me and let me know .

[mikeacman]

Magnetek told me it was triac adjustment issues or a triac failure, couldn't tell me why it failed but in the same sentence told me it was junk ..... and to replace it . When I mentioned having 4 in two years they questioned the application.

We are running two motors off this , he wondered if the current was to high .

I checked it with a trms meter and it appeared to be at or near max amps , but not over ....

[Dallas Duster]

Yes ,I know they are junk .....noy going to put mm5 on either . I want to know why...

This is what I am referring to.

[mikeacman]

Well ,I would like to put the 5's on

This is still a warranty issue ...not sure who's going to pay for what.

The customer paid for a replacement in July and we warranty for a year P&L.

I'm going to have to turn it over and let the money men decide this one.

[timebuilder]

P66 and be done with it.

Junk is the reason.

[Dallas Duster]

For 3 phase motors?

P66 and be done with it.

Junk is the reason.

[Dallas Duster]

I would have thought a MMV was less expensive.

Well ,I would like to put the 5's on

This is still a warranty issue ...not sure who's going to pay for what.

The customer paid for a replacement in July and we warranty for a year P&L.

I'm going to have to turn it over and let the money men decide this one.

[valdelocc]

P66 and be done with it.

Junk is the reason.

the biggest problem with p66 is they leak after a while.

[valdelocc]

For 3 phase motors?

try the Hoffman 865-3aa.

[timebuilder]

For 3 phase motors?

I missed that part. I was using my dumb phone.

[Dallas Duster]

I think I will just stick to Carrier branded products.

try the Hoffman 865-3aa.

[mikeacman]

I would have thought a MMV was less expensive.

it might be , I had to make a decision as the unit was down ,the unit does not have an economizer ( I'm working on that sale ) and has a year round cooling load.

Since it was under warranty the only option for free was to replace like for like ,I couldn't buy something else and return the failed part for credit ... The only way we get a credit from the carrier distributor is to buy a new part and return identical failed part for warranty credit .

We are working on a solution ,,,,I have carrier involved .... We hope to get some or all credit for changing it to something else .

I won't hold my breathe though ....

The customer is a victim in all of this .... They paid good money for head pressure control .... And have gotten nothing but problems .

The mm3 is installed 100% by the book , it should work reliably ,but is isn't reliable . It does work ,just not for more than 3-6 months .

At this point I want to hear what carrier engineering has to say....the call is in ...waiting for a response.

[Dallas Duster]

Have you tried to run just one fan and see if the problem possibly happens? How old are those motors on the unit?
I'm sure that guy from Carrier will help you is he from Kansas City area?

it might be , I had to make a decision as the unit was down ,the unit does not have an economizer ( I'm working on that sale ) and has a year round cooling load.

Since it was under warranty the only option for free was to replace like for like ,I couldn't buy something else and return the failed part for credit ... The only way we get a credit from the carrier distributor is to buy a new part and return identical failed part for warranty credit .

We are working on a solution ,,,,I have carrier involved .... We hope to get some or all credit for changing it to something else .

I won't hold my breathe though ....

The customer is a victim in all of this .... They paid good money for head pressure control .... And have gotten nothing but problems .

The mm3 is installed 100% by the book , it should work reliably ,but is isn't reliable . It does work ,just not for more than 3-6 months .

At this point I want to hear what carrier engineering has to say....the call is in ...waiting for a response.

[mikeacman]

I thought about it , wasn't really sure what to do with the other one . Let it run or cycle it . Being a slab coil with both fans side by side with no baffles in between I wasn't sure how it would be affected trying to overcome spinning backwards over time combined with continuous cycles.

One motor is 6 months old and the other is around 2 years old.

I've been busy traveling out of town to other jobs . I got them back online and have requested help . That's as far as I gotten at this point . A better permanent solution has to be found,I just need to find some time. I want to do this once and be done with it .

I'm in southern Indiana , dealing with an independent carrier distributor, I have to run my questions thru them ,they contact carrier ,then relay it back to me ,rinse and repeat. I'm not sure who my support person is going to contact. Sometimes I can get a conference call and may ask for that.


We are a large carrier dealer but that doesn't allow us to call direct ,I believe that's reserved for carrier building services only . We sell millions a year but still have to go the dealer route for assistance . It works ,but it just takes longer.

[mikeacman]

I know other options have been suggested , but both fans really need to be controlled , they are large fans with less than a foot dividing them , the coil is a slab and is not a big coil , and there are no baffles ,if one runs full speed the other is going to windmill backwards at a very high rate of speed ,then it's going to energize and have to overcome this time and time again . On a larger unit with more coil and fan decks this may not be an issue . I just feel it will be on this unit .

I don't want to trade one issue for another. I would like an engineered solution to this if possible. I have a feeling I'm going to have to figure it out myself.

[mikeacman]

If my thinking on the backwards wind milling is wrong tell me ,I can handle it...

[Dallas Duster]

I will see what I can do.

If my thinking on the backwards wind milling is wrong tell me ,I can handle it...