Airflow problem in the basement

[stant_98]

My family and I moved into our new home 3 months ago. Turned on the heat and the end of October and my wife who stays home with our toddler age kids noticed the stuffy air in the basement. I reached up with my hand against registers and the airflow is really low - probably less than half of what it feels like on the main level.

We had a heating tune-up, seasonal checkup done yesterday and were told the furnace runs well - no issues. The filters are clean.

We also had a contractor today who inspected the ducts - the main supply duct and the return down in the utility room. He said that he could not see any dampers on the main supply duct (that goes up from the furnace leading up to the main level and branches off horizontally to the basement). He also said that he thought there may be registers that have been sealed off inside the drywalls; or some other problem that's restricting airflow velocity. He did not perform additional in-depth testing.

This is a Winchester Homes colonial type SFH built in 1999. The basement was finished by the previous owner after they initially bought the house.

Is there a cost-effective way to repair this problem without opening up drywalls to locate a potential area of air leakage or airflow being restricted?
Do you know of any specific tests or equipment that can be used/installed to troubleshoot this problem?

Your advise is much appreciated!

Rheem gas furnace 75000 BTU's/hr. 80 AFUE.

Thank you very much!

[kdean1]

You say you reached UP to feel the supply registers in the basement. That is the first problem - heated air delivered high in the room will NOT go down from there. The floors will not be warmed that way.

At first reading it seemed this was a new house, but you later write that the house was built in 1999.
If the previous owner is the one who finished the basement and installed the supply runs then he probably did it poorly.
As for a "cost effective" way to repair it, the only way to repair it is to thoroughly inspect what is there to determine if it can be rectified. You may be better off abandoning the basement supply runs and having a knowledgeable heating contractor do it right.

[stant_98]

Yes, this home was built in 1999.

My experience hiring AC/Heating service companies so far has been for things such as ac/heating seasonal tune-ups.

Do I need to get a qualified HVAC service company that specializes in the duct rework? What/how do I screen out through through local companies and select the one for this type of job to make sure time and efforts don't go wasted and I get an honest trustworthy analysis of the problem?

Can you pls educate me on the following:

- Questions to ask
- Equipment can be used to troubleshoot this problem
- Technical tests a contractor should run as part of the analysis


Thanks!

[George2]

Yes, this home was built in 1999.

My experience hiring AC/Heating service companies so far has been for things such as ac/heating seasonal tune-ups.

Do I need to get a qualified HVAC service company that specializes in the duct rework? What/how do I screen out through through local companies and select the one for this type of job to make sure time and efforts don't go wasted and I get an honest trustworthy analysis of the problem?

Can you pls educate me on the following:

- Questions to ask
- Equipment can be used to troubleshoot this problem
- Technical tests a contractor should run as part of the analysis


Thanks!

First, no offense to Dean, you can heat a basement (if done properly) with ceiling registers.

In my 30+ years, I have found that you'll have a hard time finding someone that wants to jack with your problem. Either they don't care (think there is any money to be made) or they don't know dilly.

I do not understand your thread. You said no air is coming out of the basement registers, then you said a contractor thought supplies are covered by the sheetrock. Which is it?

Can you see the main ductwork (rectangle shaped)? The supplies (that branch off) will be round. If there are no dampers (a pet peeve of mine) in the supplies, then it'll be hard to redirect the airfow.

If one is able to get to each supply, zoning may be possible. Sweet! You then can have a thermostat on each floor. I have 3 in my home.

[stant_98]

Thanks for your reply George2.

Ok, here are some more details. I've got two gas furnaces. The first one located in the utility room in the basement (Rheem 75000 BTU/hr), and the second gas furnace is in the attic (also Rheem 50000 BTU/hr). The first furnace supplies air to the basement and the main level, the second one is dedicated to the upper level. Two thermostats - one on the main level and one upstairs.

Now as far as the air.. The air velocity is fine on the main level. The problem is that air velocity coming out of ceiling registers in the basement is low. I can feel the air and the warmth when I put my hand against the grills, but the air speed/velocity seems weak.

I can see the main supply duct. It comes up vertically from the furnace (above the heat exchanger) and goes up through the floor to the main level. That's that.

Now, this main duct also has a branch that splits off the main duct and goes horizontally along the ceiling parallel to the floor in the utility room and then it looks like it becomes invisible because at the point it becomes enclosed inside the drywall which is at the point where the utility room ends.

[tedkidd]

hard to see from here...

[dan sw fl]

Total air flow can be determined at the air handler.
+ the sum of the parts ( each diffuser / vent) = Total

Manual J calc determines necessary air flow to each room/area.
I would look to an Energy Rater to provide me an Independent review.


You have not stated if there is Any imbalance in the temperatures.

The furnace capacity is there to heat a house that is close to 5,000 square foot.

[dan sw fl]

http://www.resnet.us/certified-auditor-rater

http://www.resnet.us/library/benefit...energy-rating/

Your Specific issue (... stuffy) is Not Simple to address without discovering the exact air flow distribution and relative humidity in varying conditions.
It is your choice whether you may need " an air doctor".

http://www.energyconservatory.com/pr.../products6.htm

[54regcab]

hard to see from here...

+1

[George2]

Total air flow can be determined at the air handler.
+ the sum of the parts ( each diffuser / vent) = Total

Manual J calc determines necessary air flow to each room/area.
I would look to an Energy Rater to provide me an Independent review.


You have not stated if there is Any imbalance in the temperatures.

The furnace capacity is there to heat a house that is close to 5,000 square foot.

D.D. I'm and other are impressed, but I doubt S. 98 can make heads or tails with this.

[George2]

Thanks for your reply George2.

Ok, here are some more details. I've got two gas furnaces. The first one located in the utility room in the basement (Rheem 75000 BTU/hr), and the second gas furnace is in the attic (also Rheem 50000 BTU/hr). The first furnace supplies air to the basement and the main level, the second one is dedicated to the upper level. Two thermostats - one on the main level and one upstairs.

Now as far as the air.. The air velocity is fine on the main level. The problem is that air velocity coming out of ceiling registers in the basement is low. I can feel the air and the warmth when I put my hand against the grills, but the air speed/velocity seems weak.

I can see the main supply duct. It comes up vertically from the furnace (above the heat exchanger) and goes up through the floor to the main level. That's that.

Now, this main duct also has a branch that splits off the main duct and goes horizontally along the ceiling parallel to the floor in the utility room and then it looks like it becomes invisible because at the point it becomes enclosed inside the drywall which is at the point where the utility room ends.

I've got a picture in my head (Ted is right, pictures would be great). You maybe real lucky.
Until I "see" what I'm envisioning (sp?) I won't confuss you with my "thoughts".

I do hope that someone hasn't tapped off the first floor supplies. Stick your hand into a basement supply (it helps to take off the register ). It should only go one way.

[stant_98]

Ok, here are some pictures..


IMG_

[kdean1]

Ok, here are some pictures..
IMG_

I agree with George2 that it is possible to heat the basement with registers high in the room "if done properly." But there's the catch - to do it properly will require some returns low in the room, but the floor will be warmer if the supply runs are low. From the sound of things this will not be a "cheap" thing to fix. There will be some labor (and knowledge) involved.

As for your pictures, they don't show any of the supply ducts or the "registers that have been sealed off inside the drywalls (sic)."

To find a capable contractor you can use the Contractors Locator Map on the front page of this site.

Or try asking at supply houses for their recommendations. If one company is recommended a couple of times then they may know what they are doing.

[tedkidd]

Thanks for taking the pictures. Those pictures are like going to an art gallery and taking a picture of Mona Lisa's nose. LOL. Reminds me of some of the pictures I took when I started this job. Any chance of getting some non-close ups?

How to define the problem. Hmmm. The better defined, the clearer the solution, right? Can you go deeper than "stuffy in the basement"? Is that the whole and only problem?

You certainly don't want to cure one problem then "oh yeah, I forgot - we have this problem too". Sometimes multiple problems indicate a whole different course of action.

Really the house is a system of systems. If you focus the way you took those pictures, you may find yourself going around in circles throwing money at problems.

You don't list your location in your header, so the advice you get will not be location specific. It's best to step back and get an understanding of the whole house, then drill in on problems. (Ie: sometimes an issue in the basement is caused by a problem in the attic, but if you never leave the basement you'll never figure that out.)

Some places you can find knowledgeable energy auditors, in other you can find energy raters that can help.

[George2]

Thank you for the pictures. The return air drop looks funky. What is the size of it? What size is the filter?What is the size of the A/C?

I need you to step back and take pictures of the rectangle duct off the plenum. From your earlier thread you sorta indicated that you had seperate ducts going to each area. Hopefully this is so, although probably unlikely if your luck is like mine.

[stant_98]

George2 and all others who responded - thank you! Your expertise is highly appreaciated.

I had an HVAC contractor look over the furnace and the ducts today. He recommends to install a return specifically for the basement, i.e. hook up the duct from the other side of the furnace (there is already a main return hooked up to the other side). So he recommends to install a dedicated return for the basement as well as repositioning ceiling registers - moving them closer to the exterior basement wall. He also suggested fixing one flex duct that connects adjacent bathroom.

He did not perform any tests or measurements, but said that according to his experience - there will be some airflow improvement.

Another option I have is for $$$$ to have a comprehensive energy audit and duct analysis done.

$$$$ - energy audit per system = $$$$ ($$$$ subsidized by my local utility co.) My cost $$$$
$$$$ - duct analysis for the downstairs unit/ducts only.

$$$$ total

Should I get both done or since this appears to be airflow problem, just get the duct analysis and then, based on the findings, make impovements?

Thanks again!

[dan sw fl]

George2 and all others who responded - thank you! Your expertise is highly appreciated.

I had an HVAC contractor look over the furnace and the ducts today.
He recommends to install a return specifically for the basement,
i.e. hook up the duct from the other side of the furnace
(there is already a main return hooked up to the other side).

So he recommends to install a dedicated return for the basement as well as repositioning ceiling registers -
moving them closer to the exterior basement wall.
He also suggested fixing one flex duct that connects adjacent bathroom.

He did not perform any tests or measurements,
but said that according to his experience - there will be some airflow improvement.

Another option I have is for $$$ to have a comprehensive energy audit and duct analysis done.

$0 - energy audit per system = $0 ($350 subsidized by my local utility co.) My cost $0
$0 - duct analysis for the downstairs unit/ducts only.

$0 total

Should I get both done or since this appears to be airflow problem, just get the duct analysis and then,
based on the findings, make improvements? Thanks again!

You have Not mentioned
________________ size of house,
............................ nor what city,
+++++++++++++ whether there is a temperature issue,
--------------------- or what the relative humidity is.

........................... size of the diffuser (vent)

AND now you say there are "two" systems. _ ONE Furnace = 1 System.
I am confused and probably everyone else is probably just not clear on the objectives of an analysis and then a repair actually might be.

Stuffy and low air flow are not descriptive enough to get a handle on the overall system issues.

Record Temperature and Humidity 4 times a day for a couple weeks upstairs and each end of basement.
Lowe's
AcuRite Digital Weather Station
Item #: 263101 | Model #: 00609

Adding a return in the basement does not take an analysis.

What size vents throughout the residence?
Air flow velocity for each?

Home Depot
Handheld Anemometer
Model # EA-3010U Internet # 203455797

[jpsmith1cm]

stant-98

Pricing discussions aren't permitted here. I've edited your post.

[beenthere]

If pic 6 is of the supply duct for the basement. having turning vanes installed in that ell along with additional return being added for the basement would help a lot.

[George2]

George2 and all others who responded - thank you! Your expertise is highly appreaciated.

I had an HVAC contractor look over the furnace and the ducts today. He recommends to install a return specifically for the basement, i.e. hook up the duct from the other side of the furnace (there is already a main return hooked up to the other side). So he recommends to install a dedicated return for the basement as well as repositioning ceiling registers - moving them closer to the exterior basement wall. He also suggested fixing one flex duct that connects adjacent bathroom.

He did not perform any tests or measurements, but said that according to his experience - there will be some airflow improvement.

Another option I have is for $$$$ to have a comprehensive energy audit and duct analysis done.

$$$$ - energy audit per system = $$$$ ($$$$ subsidized by my local utility co.) My cost $$$$
$$$$ - duct analysis for the downstairs unit/ducts only.

$$$$ total

Should I get both done or since this appears to be airflow problem, just get the duct analysis and then, based on the findings, make impovements?

Thanks again!

Like Darling (design) Dan, I,m confussed. But, what intriques me most is this post. I don't know how to highlight these points so I'll have to re-type them:

Energy audit per system $$$$...what is this? Is this a simple furnace-A/C check? Subsidized by the utility company (really)?

Here's the best one......duct(work) analysis $$$$? Someone charges money for
this? Who does the "analysis"? Please write soon........I gotta know!