Boiler System Air Issue

[tinman]

maybe you could get a verticle air purger and install it coming out the supply side of the boiler then installl the pump above it in the verticle position. The pump is eventually going to go out installed that way but not vertically, look at the paperwork that comes with the pump. bring the expansion tank to the point of no pressure change at the air purger and tie in the make up water and you're set to go.

one thing to remember, when you do something cheap it still has to be right because it can and will haunt you and become more of a PIA. good luck

[chuckcrj]

For a system with one pump and multiple zone valves, and boiler bypass this is how it should be piped. PRV should be piped in at tank location. Purge valve between boiler and tank connection should be installed for air purging.

[chuckcrj]

Nobody caught my mistake??? I can't go back and edit it now.

I meant "system bypass" not boiler bypass. System bypass is needed when you want to keep the return water temp above 130 to eliminate thermal shock and flue gas condensation. A boiler bypass would have the bypass tied into the supply line upstream from the pump as opposed to downstream in my drawing.

Boiler bypass is used to control supply temps. System bypass is used to control return temps.

[Joehvac25]

Nobody caught my mistake??? I can't go back and edit it now.

I meant "system bypass" not boiler bypass. System bypass is needed when you want to keep the return water temp above 130 to eliminate thermal shock and flue gas condensation. A boiler bypass would have the bypass tied into the supply line upstream from the pump as opposed to downstream in my drawing.

Boiler bypass is used to control supply temps. System bypass is used to control return temps.

What do you think of this, no pump on boiler just out in system, keeps boiler temps high and system side low.
Not sure if you can make it out

[Joehvac25]

I didn't put water heater in

[firecontrol]

After I stepped away for awhile so my eyes would straighten back out my only suggestion is to bite the bullet and start over. I'm real suspect if the old boiler worked any better if it was connected exactly the way this one is.

[Joehvac25]

After I stepped away for awhile so my eyes would straighten back out my only suggestion is to bite the bullet and start over. I'm real suspect if the old boiler worked any better if it was connected exactly the way this one is.

He's right, the HO is always going to say it worked better before you were there because they don't want to pay.

[tiger man]

What do you think of this, no pump on boiler just out in system, keeps boiler temps high and system side low.
Not sure if you can make it out

like chuck crj showed in his simple piping schematic, there is only one way to properly pipe a boiler, it is non- negoitable where to put pump, and spirovent, tank, and fill valve, etc. We do this on every boiler we changeout or install in new construction. To the op, that is a criminal picture of the piping, and will never eliminate air.

[jtrammel]

Get a 5 gallon bucket fill it with water stick the end of a garden hose in it then connect the other end of hose to the drain valve on the boiler piping, turn on valve and keep end of hose submerged under water in bucket until no air bubbles are present, shut off drain valve and all air should be eliminated. An old timer showed me this trick after I changed a circulating pump and got air in the system with no bleeders and I tried for hours to get the air out, he came by and within 10 minutes he had it fixed, needless to say I felt like a dummy but il never forget it and have used it many times now. Hope this helps.

[zibby]

it hurts my eyes just to look at it.

[tedkidd]

God you guys are funny!

Look at all the threaded pipe! Man, that thing looks worse than my copper work, and I'm a HACK (maybe i'll post pictures of my baxi's later).

Can we move this to wall of shame?

Liberty, Why do bad things happen to good people. I think Joe nailed it, perpetually cheep HO knows how to work every big hearted sap who walks in the door. Teach him how to purge his own system and tell him what it'll cost to NOT have to do that any more.

This is a good reminder for us. If they don't let you clean up pipes, air ain't your problem from now on. It's amazing how people find money when you don't make their plea of poverty your problem.

[LibertyTree]

I know its a pile of poo. I saw the old system and very little was done to the piping. The tech who installed it claimed to know everything about everything and was very good at some things but apparently not boilers... He very well could have put the pump or the vent/tank in the wrong place. Here's the question I have, how in the hell is the air getting in the system? Do you guys think its air that was never bled out during the installation that finally migrated to a point where it stopped the pump from circulating? There are no leaks in the piping in the mechanical room for sure.

[LibertyTree]

Liberty, Why do bad things happen to good people. I think Joe nailed it, perpetually cheep HO knows how to work every big hearted sap who walks in the door. Teach him how to purge his own system and tell him what it'll cost to NOT have to do that any more.

This is a good reminder for us. If they don't let you clean up pipes, air ain't your problem from now on. It's amazing how people find money when you don't make their plea of poverty your problem.

It sounds like we might have a case of installer baffoonery. Seems to me that the things Beenthere and Joehvac25 said about the pipe work would have amounted to an extra hour of work during the install to save me and the customer this damn headache. Seems to me if I don't personally know how to do it I'd better learn or leave it alone rather than trust anyone...