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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    tip of the mitt
    Posts
    1,974
    maybe you could get a verticle air purger and install it coming out the supply side of the boiler then installl the pump above it in the verticle position. The pump is eventually going to go out installed that way but not vertically, look at the paperwork that comes with the pump. bring the expansion tank to the point of no pressure change at the air purger and tie in the make up water and you're set to go.

    one thing to remember, when you do something cheap it still has to be right because it can and will haunt you and become more of a PIA. good luck
    I have my own little world. But it's OK...they know me here.

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    In a boiler room
    Posts
    7,046
    For a system with one pump and multiple zone valves, and boiler bypass this is how it should be piped. PRV should be piped in at tank location. Purge valve between boiler and tank connection should be installed for air purging.





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  3. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    In a boiler room
    Posts
    7,046
    Nobody caught my mistake??? I can't go back and edit it now.

    I meant "system bypass" not boiler bypass. System bypass is needed when you want to keep the return water temp above 130 to eliminate thermal shock and flue gas condensation. A boiler bypass would have the bypass tied into the supply line upstream from the pump as opposed to downstream in my drawing.

    Boiler bypass is used to control supply temps. System bypass is used to control return temps.

  4. #17
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Upper Michigan
    Posts
    3,588
    Quote Originally Posted by chuckcrj View Post
    Nobody caught my mistake??? I can't go back and edit it now.

    I meant "system bypass" not boiler bypass. System bypass is needed when you want to keep the return water temp above 130 to eliminate thermal shock and flue gas condensation. A boiler bypass would have the bypass tied into the supply line upstream from the pump as opposed to downstream in my drawing.

    Boiler bypass is used to control supply temps. System bypass is used to control return temps.
    What do you think of this, no pump on boiler just out in system, keeps boiler temps high and system side low.
    Not sure if you can make it out

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  5. #18
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Upper Michigan
    Posts
    3,588
    I didn't put water heater in

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Northern Wisconsin
    Posts
    1,976
    After I stepped away for awhile so my eyes would straighten back out my only suggestion is to bite the bullet and start over. I'm real suspect if the old boiler worked any better if it was connected exactly the way this one is.
    Use the biggest hammer you like, pounding a square peg into a round hole does not equal a proper fit.

  7. #20
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Upper Michigan
    Posts
    3,588
    Quote Originally Posted by firecontrol View Post
    After I stepped away for awhile so my eyes would straighten back out my only suggestion is to bite the bullet and start over. I'm real suspect if the old boiler worked any better if it was connected exactly the way this one is.
    He's right, the HO is always going to say it worked better before you were there because they don't want to pay.

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    wisconsin
    Posts
    270
    Quote Originally Posted by Joehvac25 View Post
    What do you think of this, no pump on boiler just out in system, keeps boiler temps high and system side low.
    Not sure if you can make it out

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    like chuck crj showed in his simple piping schematic, there is only one way to properly pipe a boiler, it is non- negoitable where to put pump, and spirovent, tank, and fill valve, etc. We do this on every boiler we changeout or install in new construction. To the op, that is a criminal picture of the piping, and will never eliminate air.

  9. #22
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Anderson, South Carolina, United States
    Posts
    6,347
    Get a 5 gallon bucket fill it with water stick the end of a garden hose in it then connect the other end of hose to the drain valve on the boiler piping, turn on valve and keep end of hose submerged under water in bucket until no air bubbles are present, shut off drain valve and all air should be eliminated. An old timer showed me this trick after I changed a circulating pump and got air in the system with no bleeders and I tried for hours to get the air out, he came by and within 10 minutes he had it fixed, needless to say I felt like a dummy but il never forget it and have used it many times now. Hope this helps.

  10. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    NH
    Posts
    238
    it hurts my eyes just to look at it.

  11. #24
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Rochester NY
    Posts
    4,699
    God you guys are funny!

    Look at all the threaded pipe! Man, that thing looks worse than my copper work, and I'm a HACK (maybe i'll post pictures of my baxi's later).

    Can we move this to wall of shame?

    Liberty, Why do bad things happen to good people. I think Joe nailed it, perpetually cheep HO knows how to work every big hearted sap who walks in the door. Teach him how to purge his own system and tell him what it'll cost to NOT have to do that any more.

    This is a good reminder for us. If they don't let you clean up pipes, air ain't your problem from now on. It's amazing how people find money when you don't make their plea of poverty your problem.
    Which makes more sense to you?
    CONSERVATION - turning your thermostat back and being uncomfortable. Maybe saving 5-10%
    ENERGY EFFICIENCY - leaving your thermostat where everyone is comfortable. Saving 30-70%

    DO THE NUMBERS! Step on a HOMESCALE.
    What is comfort? Well, it AIN'T just TEMPERATURE!

    Energy Obese? An audit is the next step - go to BPI.org, or RESNET, and find an auditor near you.

  12. #25
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Seattle WA
    Posts
    1,225
    I know its a pile of poo. I saw the old system and very little was done to the piping. The tech who installed it claimed to know everything about everything and was very good at some things but apparently not boilers... He very well could have put the pump or the vent/tank in the wrong place. Here's the question I have, how in the hell is the air getting in the system? Do you guys think its air that was never bled out during the installation that finally migrated to a point where it stopped the pump from circulating? There are no leaks in the piping in the mechanical room for sure.
    America; first we fight for our freedom,
    then we make laws to take it away.

    -Alfred E Newman

  13. #26
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Seattle WA
    Posts
    1,225
    Quote Originally Posted by tedkidd View Post
    Liberty, Why do bad things happen to good people. I think Joe nailed it, perpetually cheep HO knows how to work every big hearted sap who walks in the door. Teach him how to purge his own system and tell him what it'll cost to NOT have to do that any more.

    This is a good reminder for us. If they don't let you clean up pipes, air ain't your problem from now on. It's amazing how people find money when you don't make their plea of poverty your problem.
    It sounds like we might have a case of installer baffoonery. Seems to me that the things Beenthere and Joehvac25 said about the pipe work would have amounted to an extra hour of work during the install to save me and the customer this damn headache. Seems to me if I don't personally know how to do it I'd better learn or leave it alone rather than trust anyone...
    America; first we fight for our freedom,
    then we make laws to take it away.

    -Alfred E Newman

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