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  1. #1
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    Oct 2001
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    Health care

    Sorry to disappoint most of you but this is not about Obamacare. This is about present health care insurance companies. It is true example how they operate in a free market economy with disregard to human factor.
    A person that I know very well went to hospital for surgery. His insurance plan has $2,000.00 deductible.
    When hospital bill came in it stated that charges were $46,000.00. Adjustments were $-10,500.
    I guess that this number is what insurance co. knocked down from hospital charges, and people without insurance would be obligated to pay no matter what. Here is the kick. Insurance co. paid everything except $5,000.00.
    This leaves a patient with $3,000.00 in the hole. So what is a purpose of having insurance?
    The policy did not state that there will be more charges to patient than $2,000 deductible.
    I know that government should not regulate private business but this is different story. I believe that
    health care insurance companies should be regulated and if push comes to shove, the whole system should be change to a single payer system.

  2. #2
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    That's sad. Single payer is a huge tradeoff though. What's best, expensive care or rationed care? Pick your poison.
    (I'm from Canada, I know a thing or two about "free" healthcare in a single payer system)

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phrancis View Post
    That's sad. Single payer is a huge tradeoff though. What's best, expensive care or rationed care? Pick your poison.
    (I'm from Canada, I know a thing or two about "free" healthcare in a single payer system)
    If this statement came from printer2 I would take time to think about it but since you are from Louisville KY, I will not.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by sigma View Post
    If this statement came from printer2 I would take time to think about it but since you are from Louisville KY, I will not.
    Lived in Quebec (yes I'm a french canadian - get over it!) for the first 23 years of my life or so. Immigrated (legally) to the US 6 years ago to live with my then-new wife.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phrancis View Post
    Lived in Quebec (yes I'm a french canadian - get over it!) for the first 23 years of my life or so. Immigrated (legally) to the US 6 years ago to live with my then-new wife.

    Si s'il vous plaît me pardonner

  6. #6
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    Phrancis, can I ask you how much do you pay for your health insurance?

  7. #7
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    OTTAWA—Canadians, it seems, love their universal health care.

    The monarchy? Not so much.

    A new national poll commissioned by the Montreal-based Association for Canadian Studies examined the pride Canadians place in a list of more than a dozen symbols, achievements and attributes.

    The online survey of 2,207 respondents by Leger Marketing found universal health care was almost universally loved, with 94 per cent calling it an important source of collective pride — including 74 per cent who called it “very important.”
    http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/a...ud-of-medicare

    Not to say that Phrancis does not have a point. If you go to a furniture store and there are ten salesmen standing around you can pick the one you want and get served right away. If there are only two and they are already serving customers then you may have to wait until one is finished with the customer ahead of you. I equate the two system to cars that get you down the road. One has a V6 and the other a big V8. They both get you where you want to go but the V8 will get you there faster but it will also cost you more in gas, even when it is idling.
    Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. —Mark Twain

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by printer2 View Post
    http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/a...ud-of-medicare

    Not to say that Phrancis does not have a point. If you go to a furniture store and there are ten salesmen standing around you can pick the one you want and get served right away. If there are only two and they are already serving customers then you may have to wait until one is finished with the customer ahead of you. I equate the two system to cars that get you down the road. One has a V6 and the other a big V8. They both get you where you want to go but the V8 will get you there faster but it will also cost you more in gas, even when it is idling.
    Yes, the big V8 in US medical field works great. We have abundance of doctors, hospitals, dentists and what not. They all advertise their services in newspapers, TV and radio. The problem is if your employer does not pay for most of health insurance you better pray for good health.
    Now going back to my post, I was questioning fair practice of insurance companies and medical providers.
    If you go to hospital in Canada and before treatment do they make you sign piece of paper stating that whatever charges not paid by insurance company will be your responsibility?
    What would you do if you had car insurance with $1000.00 deductible and after accident your car was fixed and insurance company paid everything less $3000.00 ? Would you be happy paying extra $2000.00?
    I understand that insurers have to make profit but not by denying coverage. Another question is about double standard. Why there are different prices for insured and uninsured people.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by sigma View Post
    Yes, the big V8 in US medical field works great. We have abundance of doctors, hospitals, dentists and what not. They all advertise their services in newspapers, TV and radio. The problem is if your employer does not pay for most of health insurance you better pray for good health.
    Now going back to my post, I was questioning fair practice of insurance companies and medical providers.
    If you go to hospital in Canada and before treatment do they make you sign piece of paper stating that whatever charges not paid by insurance company will be your responsibility?
    What would you do if you had car insurance with $1000.00 deductible and after accident your car was fixed and insurance company paid everything less $3000.00 ? Would you be happy paying extra $2000.00?
    I understand that insurers have to make profit but not by denying coverage. Another question is about double standard. Why there are different prices for insured and uninsured people.
    I agree that insurance companies should have to stick to their supposed promises. Though many times the overview of coverage neglect to mention exclusions, which you have to dig into the fine print to find.

    To my knowledge there is very little that the government-funded healthcare in Canada will not pay for as far as necessary care is concerned. One distinction I would make is that Canada in general is not as legal-trigger-happy as USA seems to be, and that's one way of reducing cost. But I know a few things for fact:

    1: Taxes are insanely high and infrastructure generally sucks. Gotta fund that "free" healthcare somehow.
    2: Unreasonable wait times, up to and including lotteries for surgery in some areas, are a reality up there.
    3: Qualified practitioners are moving away from Canada because the pay and conditions are so much better south of the US/Canada border.

  10. #10
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    The problem, IMO, is not the medical industry, it is the consumer.

    Why do we have to have everything at 100%... and expect the insurance co to pay all the bill? Here is an example:

    I remember when I was in grade school, I cut my finger on a Sunday afternoon at Grandpa's house. Mom and Grandpa took me to the local clinic, where the doctor cleaned it, sewed it up, bandaged it, gave me a tetanus shot, gave Mom a few sets of bandages and anti-biotic cream. Then he wrote Mom a bill for, get this, $25. Yes, twenty five dollars. Mom said she was out/town, could she send a check when she got home... The doc said sure... did not even get Mom's mailing address. (Yes, Mom sent the check, that was the right thing to do).

    Now fast forward to today: ER visit to sew up a finger would be well over $1000.

    Was the extra care necessary? Was it worth it? Do we NEED it?
    "Oh, that is the insurance so's problem how much it costs"... well no, because what the insurance co pays out has to come from the monthly premiums they collect. Remember... their books have to balance.

    IMO these are some questions we as consumers need to ask ourselves... we might learn to save a LOT of $$$ on minor medical stuff if we would.

    IMO the solution to medical costs is for folks to only carry major/catestrophic insurance (when I was growing up, this was all my parents could afford)... that means the doc for the flu, eyeglasses, dentistry, cosmetic surgery, etc... is out of our pocket. Imagine how FAST those things would cost less if we were paying for them rather than an insurance co.

    NO, it is not the medical industry's fault, no it is not the insurance co's fault, and no it is not the govt's responsibility... it is us who choose to not budget and make wise decisions when it comes to medical care.
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  11. #11
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    There are free market alternatives to the emergency room. There are privately owned immediate care clinics in many cities, they will see you right away and are a lot cheaper than the ER. I broke a toe last year, looked one up on the internet, drove there and was treated. One person was ahead of me and I had a 5 minute wait. They took my insurance information and fixed me right up. did the digital xrays on site. Had 4 or 5 people working there at 7pm including the xray tech.. Just paid a $25 or $35 deductible.
    “I am for doing good to the poor, but...I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. I observed...that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer.”
    ― Benjamin Franklin

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    The problem, IMO, is not the medical industry, it is the consumer.

    Why do we have to have everything at 100%... and expect the insurance co to pay all the bill? Here is an example:

    I remember when I was in grade school, I cut my finger on a Sunday afternoon at Grandpa's house. Mom and Grandpa took me to the local clinic, where the doctor cleaned it, sewed it up, bandaged it, gave me a tetanus shot, gave Mom a few sets of bandages and anti-biotic cream. Then he wrote Mom a bill for, get this, $25. Yes, twenty five dollars. Mom said she was out/town, could she send a check when she got home... The doc said sure... did not even get Mom's mailing address. (Yes, Mom sent the check, that was the right thing to do).

    Now fast forward to today: ER visit to sew up a finger would be well over $1000.

    Was the extra care necessary? Was it worth it? Do we NEED it?
    "Oh, that is the insurance so's problem how much it costs"... well no, because what the insurance co pays out has to come from the monthly premiums they collect. Remember... their books have to balance.

    IMO these are some questions we as consumers need to ask ourselves... we might learn to save a LOT of $$$ on minor medical stuff if we would.

    IMO the solution to medical costs is for folks to only carry major/catestrophic insurance (when I was growing up, this was all my parents could afford)... that means the doc for the flu, eyeglasses, dentistry, cosmetic surgery, etc... is out of our pocket. Imagine how FAST those things would cost less if we were paying for them rather than an insurance co.

    NO, it is not the medical industry's fault, no it is not the insurance co's fault, and no it is not the govt's responsibility... it is us who choose to not budget and make wise decisions when it comes to medical care.

    I agree with the catastrophic insurance concept. But we have done nothing to deal with illegal aliens getting free healthcare. Obamacare does not fix that.

    Get used to the idea of more taxes, they are coming.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tool-Slinger View Post
    I agree with the catastrophic insurance concept. But we have done nothing to deal with illegal aliens getting free healthcare. Obamacare does not fix that.

    Get used to the idea of more taxes, they are coming.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/27/ny...pagewanted=all

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