Having problems getting new Quadra-Fire Mt Vernon Pellet Stove AE seviced.

[SeattlePioneer]

<<I like the fact your in PA. We have enough Hot air blowers in our state.>>


Hey!


Seattle Pioneer





I finally have something good to say about ordering parts for a Healtilator fireplace. After ordering the needed parts three months ago, I am finally told they have arrived. Having been told that once three weeks ago only to be disappointed, but I'm getting optimistic.


My customer has had no use of their fireplace for three months because Heatilator couldn't get the needed parts to the dealer ---and the missing part is a millivolt gas valve they ought to be able to get easily enough.


Sloppy invetory work that hurts customers and damages their reputation.



Seattle Pioneer

Hearth man sounds like he knows something, but it sounds like alot of diversion and hooey than an explaination on how to resolve this Mt Vernon problem. a bit of advise Hearth Man is this, Brevity when quoting corp. propaganda.

Second Hearth Man Unless you live in Colville WA. then you really don't know squat about the goings on at the factory/plant. Please refrain from blanketing the facts with hypethetical assumptions. you know what they say about assumptions, their the mother of all F@*K UPs.

the information for resolution on my previous entry is a good guideline however the one I forgot to include. Grab the dealer you bought it from by the ear and give it a good twist, then tell them to remove the stove and replace it with a better line of stove. sorry for that mistake.

Third to show that Hearthman Loves Corp. Prop is this quote of his "If they had committed proper resources to the project much earlier, this could have been avoided but engineering was pressed to roll it out ready or not. Obviously, they lost the gamble." You see the plant doesn't operate as You imply Hearth man but more strickley they believed the stove perfect and ready for manufacturing. and the production line wasn't completed till Sept and on time. so where ever you got the information from on the summer start was again Propaganda. What the problem was after the line went up was this.

One - the Inspection agent who orders and test each part failed in his task and apparently all the lots wasn't being tested for functionality. also it appears some of the electrical parts was not the coded parts needed for this application. He was Sacked when the the bottom fell out on this endeavor.
Second - and this one I love the most because it was uncharacterist of the company but it happened. The hoppers had chipped areas and cracks on them so the solution was to duck tape and paint the areas to cover up the repairs instead of reorder the parts and build the units correctly. LOL HAHAHA this I found out a week ago from a worker on that line.
Third - the ash tray that dumps sometimes will dump the whole tray out of it's carraige. Forth - the porceline ones I wouldn't be surprised if in time the porceline doesnt start to flake or chip away from the cast. apparently they can't get the batchs right for the porcelian/cast compatibility.

Now these are only the in factory issues I know of on the Mt Vernon Line.

So Hearth man unless you have worked in the plant as I have, then your explainations are nothing more than Corp. Propaganda and Hot Air.


Bottom line is, the whole process of this Mt Vernon Line is plagued with alot of issues and too many Yes Men and not enough No Man. Unfortunately they sacked a hugh portion of their labor force and kept the Idiot Yes Men.

I like the fact your in PA. We have enough Hot air blowers in our state. Just look who we have for a govenor.

Sincerely
Kelly

[junk_mtvernon]

Sorry to be the guy that jumps in and states "me too" but as my user name states......My Mt. Vernon pellet stove is GARBAGE and I can only warn future buyers DO NOT PURCHASE THIS STOVE. Unless you want a stove that works 25 percent of the time, leaks fumes into your home, makes a LOT of noise and is backed by a company that does not give a rats a$$. Ill also state for the record that I purchased the stove from Preston Trading Post in CT and have been treated horridly by them every time I have called with an issue. I would buy NOTHING from them. The lines they give me "we will have the new part in next week...next week...well call you" Thats BS. Any one thinking about this product RUN RUN RUN.....and if you want to call me (a real owner) and talk PLEASE DO 860-334-6458. Happy to tell you more about it.

It looks great, specs out well but get it in your home after spending $$$$$$ and get ready to grab your ankles.

I think I am most upset about the fact that Preston knew about the issues BEFORE they sat there and sold me the thing.

Gary

[junk_mtvernon]

What is contained in the fix kit? My wife and I just bought the stove and it works pretty well except the fan seems too loud (can't seem to change the blower speed in manual heat output mode set at low) and the thermostat is off by 3-5 degrees. Other than that it fired up easy enough and puts out a lot of heat.

Wait for the problems....they are soon on the way.

[BuenieBob]

Here is my personal story of the new Quad Mt. Vernon AE stoves. I'd like to preface this by saying before this the Quad products had proved to be great and the tech service fast and professional. I am a dealer in Colorado and I was selling all the old Mt. Vernons and I ran out of Mahogany. I had two customers who wanted Mt. Vernons in Mahogany so I ordered three, thinking I would put one in the showroom. They kept delaying the order but finally after a month they came, late in the day when I couldn't see all the chips in the glaze. The customers where getting anxious but they agreed to wait.
The problems started immediately. You see, we burn all our pellet stoves at our shop, just to make sure we have a product that works perfectly when we install it. For three days we tried everything we could to make these stoves work. I spent most of three days on the phone with tech support (or on hold) trying to solve problems. Some of the guys at tech were pretty much clueless and most had limited knowledge of the AE. I've been in HVAC for 30 years, and I figured hey, I've got three stoves, I can switch parts and make one work, right? Wrong!!! They were a mess, they had myriad problems and the more we looked at them the more chips in the finish we found. We switched parts again and again but we couldn't get one good stove out of the three of them.
At first I thought I had a streak of really bad luck, but actually it turned out for the best. My two customers agreed to take Black Mt. Vernons ( the old reliable models that I only had a few of) and they are really happy with them. If I had installed any of these AEs in customer's houses that would be the ultimate nightmare because I stand behind what I sell and I would have made it right no matter what the cost. I told Quadrafire I have three lemons here that they can pickup when they get around to it. I told them I would certainly not be paying for them. So here it is, more than 2 months later. The Mt. Vernon AEs sit in my warehouse gathering dust. Quadrafire has not contacted me at all about them. I don't know what they are going to do with them, but right now I have three very large mahogany paperweights.

[junk_mtvernon]

BuenieBob, Sorry to hear your problems!!! Hey very nice business mover to test the stoves, I appreciate that!!

My question: You refer to the "black reliable" stoves.....I have a black Mt Vernon, just for clarification for those those could be buyers reading this, I think its more about them being an old model...could you please elaborate????

Thanks

[BuenieBob]

I am referring to the the previous Mt. Vernon stove (not the AE, advanced energy stove, although I guess they could change that to always exasperating or whatever name you chose). The previous Mt. Vernon had a mechanical thermostat, a little manual knob to pick flame height and fan speed, and a manual reset button. It also had a little rod inside with a wing nut on it to adjust flame height. Low tech, low key, very basic. No digital stat controlling every function. This previous generation Mt. Vernon was reliable and easy to troubleshoot if needed. I loved them and so did my customers. I wished I had more to sell but mine are all gone. They discontinued making them, which is a sad thing. It's a doggone cryin' shame, you've got a good product which you could sell tons of, and then they decide to stop makin' em. Progress? I don't think so!

[junk_mtvernon]

Thanks for the explanation I really didn't know the history on the stove. Yeah I would love one of those "basic" models. So many things were great about this stove, when it worked, 20 percent of the time!!!! Simplicity is most times best!!!

Again like I said before, if your thinking of purchasing one of these new AE Mt Vernon stoves DO NOT call me and I can quickly talk you out of it!!!!!!!!

[blueflame]

BuenieBob and Junk Mt Vernon - You are not alone in having problems with theMt Vernon. It would have been much smarter for Quad to wait 6 months before they rolled it out to the market. They will suffer the insults for quite a while for this one, but they now have a product that is working the way they originally wanted. They have their people up to speed, are overnight parts when they are made aware of a issue, are putting training on around the country for dealers, have brought back all inventory sitting in dealers warehouses and updated their stoves, and will do whatever they need to get any stove not running right updated to the most current controls. Don't believe me, try them again. They need to know you still aren't happy. They will respond.

[junk_mtvernon]

I don't know about that one, I have been waiting for the dealer to get parts in for the past 3 almost 4 weeks. According to them its Quadra-Fire keeping them in the dark.

My stove sits about 5 feet away from my computer as I write this.....not working AT ALL for the past week. Great deal for over $3,000

[junk_mtvernon]

And sure companies make mistakes, lets not get into that. THIS IS FIRE we are talking about, were talking smoke and fumes in your home!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[blueflame]

I talk from experience. If Quad knew about the problem they would overnight the part to the dealer. They have done it for me and mannnnnyyyy others. The dealer needs to make you a priorty and call Quad. If he has a problem with that you can call Quad directly and get help for him.

[hearthman]

Look, I'm not happy with the way this unit turned out or the decisions upper mgt. made which resulted in this mess. However, it would appear from what I've seen from local dealers and from what Blueflame says they are stepping up to the plate to resolve it.

If I was stuck with such as problem, I would be in personal contact with Quad. Their system tracks units by serial number. Once you contact them, your case doesn't go away. It stays on their radar and questions keep getting asked why this serial number hasn't been cleared away.

So, instead of sitting around complaining on an internet site and trash talking the mfr. to anyone who will listen I just ask, what have you done to contact them directly? If your car was a mess, would you be satisfied complaining on the internet about your dealer or contacting GM or Ford?

Even if you have contacted them before, do it again. Remind them you are out there. Tell them the lack of service or communication you are getting from your local dealer. It is times like these that can determine who will be sold product in the future and who will be refused. If a dealer fails to respond properly to a situation such as this, the mfr. may elect not to sell to them anymore. Quad makes many reliable products that a lot of people are mad they cannot get from Quad. If your stove shop drops the ball perhaps he has a competitor who would love to take up the local Quad business.

The bottom line is communication. When faced with any recall type situation, the squeaking wheel gets the grease. Write them and email them. Always include your serial number as this gets it into their permanent database. It can also move your status to more urgent.

HTH

[BuenieBob]

Hearthman, You may be living in a dream world of your own imagination. You have a lot of faith in Quad. I really hope you are right. I am a dealer with 3 Mt. Vernon AEs siting in my warehouse that nobody has contacted me on in 2 &1/2 months.They have all been a mess from the beginning. My guess is this
AE problem has overwhelmed them completely and they are fighting just to keep their heads above water on this one. They may even be drowning! It may be worth contacting them directly to see if they will respond, but this is their standard response - Contact your dealer!!! JunkMtVernon, give them a try - but don't hold your breath waiting for help.

[jetstream]

Hearthman is right on with his suggestion to communicate directly with the company. I'd suggest that you do a little research to find out who the president or CEO is of the company, and write directly to him, not with a whine or a rant, just detailing concisely what you expected, what you paid, what happened, and how you've been unable to get the matter resolved to date. If all you want to do is raise hell, then don't waste you're time or theirs. But if you have a legitimate problem and you're willing to work with the company to resolve it, you might be pleasantly surprised at the response.

I have done this a few times myself in the past, including writing a letter to the CEO of the biggest bank in the country when I had an issue I couldn't get resolved at the local level. The response was swift, effective, and impressive, and I'm still a loyal customer of theirs to this day.

From another point of view, as a tech I often had to listen to customers complaining about one thing or another in reference to the large utility I worked for. I'd truthfully tell them that they were wasting their breath complaining to me, but if they'd take their time to write a letter to the company, they'd be a lot further ahead.

Not many actually would ever bother to write a letter, but when the company did receive a written complaint that had some validity, that letter would get photo-copied and posted on bulletin boards and circulated throughout the company, and it would have a real effect, believe me.

Take Hearthman's advice, write to the company, don't waste your time slamming the company on-line, it's not only more effective to write them, it's the decent thing to do IMHO.

[jtp10181]

If you call technical support @ QUAD and tell them to enter a claim they will. You need the serial number and they will key everything into their claim system. It will get assigned to someone in technical dept (whoever is most suited to resolve the problem). That person will then follow up with your dealer or with the local sales rep. If your dealer is not being helpful they might contact another local dealer and ask them to fix it.

I work at a dealer myself and we have gotten a couple emails from our sales rep (who got an email from HNG technical) telling us we need to go fix something, and the claim from their system was attached. One of these was over an hour drive away and after three trips down there we got everything resolved. Ended up ripping the fireplace out and re-installing it to code and better insulated the chase to stop cold air problems. Also set all settings on unit (air shutter, pressure, etc) to the correct place to fix flame appearance and heat output. All this was done at no charge to satisfy an unhappy customer.

Bob: You should be able to do the same thing, with a claim. Since you burned the units I am not sure if quad will take them back, but someone should be able to at least send you repair parts under warranty. I believe the porcelain finish is under warranty for 1 year from mfg defects so if it is bad all over you should send them pics, they should be able to do something about that also. The tech should be able to give you an email addy to send digital pictures.

[sysint]

The biggest problem I see with the pellet stove market is that the local distributors DO NOT HAVE QUALIFIED technicians.

They don't know enough to properly diagnose problems and alert management when a product starts to display BIG problems.

They also don't seem to have any margin for parts stocking and there is no real plan from the manufacturers to have their parts available. Additionally, it seems much of the componetry is special rather than making some more universal parts/ignition controls.. etc....

The other thing I don't see is detailed technical manuals on sequence/wiring.

Personally, I have a Castille that is absolutely trouble free (fan noise is irritating--- it could be quieter) However, I've inquired and there doesn't seem to really be any detailed manuals on the product.

[hearthman]

Amen, brother!

Look around at mfr's training materials. Do you see any advanced pellet courses from any of the mfrs? I haven't. Why is this?

-they have nobody experienced enough to take advanced training
-this is because they run them off. The hearth industry has a terrible turn around rate with techs.
-the shop owners and managers are too cheap to send their guys to training
-advanced training cannot be done in a few hours sitting in a hotel conference room with a Power Point presentation.

I'll give you an example of a healthy trend. One mfr. who presents NFI courses is done with the presentation by lunch and rely soley on Power Point slides. No personal interaction from the "instructor" is allowed. A real engaging educational experience.... Now, compare this with Dave Pomeroy's Signature Training. Dave presents the same course over two days including some evening work! He has hands on props he incorporates into the program. As for Power Point slides, he uses less than 50 while the official presentation has been whittled down to 385 slides for gas! Can you imagine trying to run through 385 slides in one day? Now invision doing it before lunch!

Here is an example of what is NOT included in the pellet course from one of the mfrs.:
-cut aways of each model with a presentation on the airflows in & out.
- one each of that brand's stoves so you can gather around to see how to open it, how to remove the various panels once it is installed, what fasteners were used, what is would take to replace each part, and where those parts are.
-wiring schematics. What is 110vac and what is not, if any. How do you test each component? What is a normal expected and acceptable range of impedance for every electrical component and circuit so you can Ohm then out?
-list of parts common across the various models and which models have a part different from the others. Why was this different part necessary? Include MSRPs.
-what is an acceptable vacuum in the stove. At what vacuum should the switch close?
-pics of varous flames showing normal then the effects of high and low feed rates, plugged venting, plugged holes in burn pots, blocked air intake, negative pressure indoors, etc.
-set of step by step instructions on replacing every single part.
-what is an acceptable range for vent discharge in temps, CFM, and combustion analysis?
-what are the cause and effects seen with a combustion analyzer when you have venting issues, negative pressure, blocked air holes, etc. ?


There's more but you see where I'm going with this. They all leave us hanging to figure it out on our own. Then, when you get an old warhorse of a tech who figures out some of this stuff, he doesn't want to share his knowledge because he feels it is job security. Not a pretty picture. We need to do a much better job of recording this valuable info and sharing it with othes.

[CircleCR]

Wow - wish I had found these messages 3 weeks ago - bought a Mt Vernon AE from dealer (Stone Image in Colorado) - installed it - wouldn't work - dealer refused to come out and repair - would only repair if we brought the stove back to him! Called Quadra Fire, they said we had to work with the dealer! We contacted another dealer who helped us troubleshoot the problem - bad power supply - new dealer had power supply and we picked it up and installed it. Now the convection blower is jammed - cleaned out, spins freely, never jammed but stove thinks it is jammed and will not work. Original dealer still will not come out to repair - new dealer will come out for a cost since we didn't buy from them. Quadra Fire still no help - will have to deal with dealer (who won't help). Is it reasonable to expect us to bring our brand new 400 lb stove into the dealer everytime it needs to be repaired??? Asked dealer for a full refund - he refuses!!! Have had a non-working, brand new stove for 1 week and he refuses a refund??? Inform him that he will either give us our money back or we will dispute on credit card - he says we can't do that - watch me!! We have filed a complaint with Quadra Fire, and the Better Business Bureau. Dealer now agrees to a full refund if we will bring the stove to him! Are you kidding me! I don't know who is worse here - the dealer or the manufaturer. I will never purchase anything from Stone Image in Colorado or Quadra Fire again - the worst appliance and customer service I have ever received. Please if you are thinking of buying anything from these companies - don't!!!!!!!!! Obvioulsy the problems are continuing!

[MtnStvGuy]

jtp, im looking forward to the new AE as well, but i stand by my golden rule of never carrying a pellet stove the first season it was introduced, sometimes i wait two seasons. This year that saved my butt. The new AE is going to be fantastic once the bugs are worked out, i have never seen anything like it on the market but I refuse to be the manufactures R&D department.

[Scottnjtjk]

First, thanks to everyone who provided quality insight and patiently answered my questions about my AE stove. I can't easily say how valuable it has been.

With that said, having now had the AE in my home for about 3 weeks, here are my final offerings for those considering the purchase of the AE.

Pros

Puts out a lot of heat. Great looking. Love the automated features. Quad has been pretty responsive to my few issues, probably because they have had about 9 months to work on the issues and obtain inventory of updated parts (see below about updated thermostat and C1 Board - A must!)

Cons

Don't exactly have to strain to hear it as advertised by Quad. Does this mean that it is not the one of the quietest pellet stoves out there? No, I think it is. Just air blowing through something inherently makes noise (bathroom fans, oven convection fans, blowing through a straw).

Caveats

1) AE Works very well after updated thermostat (you can tell if you have updated thermostat if it has a calibration feature under "user settings") AND C1 controller board. If you don't have both, get your dealer to get these for you. In my opinion they are essential to a well working stove.

2) I burn nothing but pellets. Can't say anything about other fuels. I believe if you burn other fuels you may want to get more input.

3) Beware of posts from those with alterior motives or who are just angry folks. IMHO you can distinghuish these posts from other problem solving/seeking posts or somewhat objective criticisms by what appears to be a rant.

4) I believe most of those who are buying the AE now who are not being satisfied likely should focus their frustration on their dealer. Quad, for me, has been relatively responsive in addressing my few problems.

5) The smell will go away. Everyone said it would and it did.

I wish you all luck and thank you again for helping my wife and I through this process.

Scott