04-15-2008, 12:46 PM
Thanks for the reply and suggestions.
I don't think the wind redirect thing you are talking about will work. I put up two big pieces of plywood to block the wind. I mean these pieces really should have blocked all of the wind and i still had the same results. Oh well.
04-15-2008, 01:21 PM
I'm talking about terminations that have positioned baffles that negate directional wind. You can't recreate that with some plywood... unless you spend alot of time at it..
04-15-2008, 06:27 PM
If you installed combustible plywood anywhere near that vent termination, remove it at once! Fire Hazard! Also, the plywood can actually cause a positive pressure zone at the termination thereby inhibiting performance. Install it to the listed instructions or not at all. Do NOT bypass primary safety controls such as vacuum switches or snap disc and never modify the termination or place shields around it. Even if you don't burn the house down, you could cause it to recirculate fly ash and fumes back into the house.
If you have a combustion appliance spilling smoke into the home, shut it down until it is corrected. Install a low level CO monitor--not a UL listed alarm. If the unit has unfriendly fires, such as in the hopper or ashpan, shut it down and contact a specialist. If there is damage to your home, contact your insurance carrier to clean up the home then let them subrogate to whomever they feel is responsible.
Contact your dealer by certified mail return receipt and Cc the mfr. They used to maintain a competent tech services staff located in the factory where they could run ask an engineer if they were stumped. The qualifications of dealers varies widely as does their willingness to respond. Their compensation for warranty issues pays only a portion of their true costs so you can see why some are hesitant to get too involved. Keep good records of all calls and communications. Always include the unit serial number in all written communications. Always write down the full name, date and time of anyone you talk to.
It's a shame there have been so many problems with this unit as when it is operating, it is a heating monster and very quiet. Let's hope the dealers step up to the plate and respond but more importantly, let's hope HHT trains these dealers on this unit and its idiosyncrasies. Right now, HHT has a skeleton training program, which barely covers the basics and nothing model specific unless the sales reps. spend some one on one time with a dealer.
As with any mfr., please be patient and civil but stay on them until you get the problem properly addressed.
Keep the fire inside the fireplace.
04-15-2008, 08:34 PM
"Do NOT bypass primary safety controls such as vacuum switches or snap disc and never modify the termination or place shields around it." --- Well there Hearthman I think you need to looksee where the DEALER bypassed the switch and you can see the brilliant dealer support Quadrafire has....
The problem here is that Quadrafire Home Hearth Technologies is doing research and development in peoples homes. Apparently UL allows this "practical home research and development" as the thing is rated, right?
04-15-2008, 09:21 PM
I'm making general statements for everyone's edification. I am not taking sides in this. However, the burden of responsibility ultimately rests with the mfr. and not their dealers. You can bypass a control while on site troubleshooting but to leave it bypassed is negligence. While dealers sell and service the product, they are not direct agents of the mfr.. This mfr. apparently has dismantled their technical services dept. and insulated themselves from direct public contact to an extent. I would recommend anyone not satisfied with the response from their dealer is to contact the Quad Brand Manager, Steve Tate with details of the problem.
To defend mfrs. a little here, they can only see so much of what happens out there. If nobody is reporting in problems or positive feedback, they have little visibility. That's why I always recommend you Cc the mfr. with the serial number of the product, esp. this mfr. because that is how your stove is tracked in their database--not by customer name or address.
If the dealer is falling short, keep up the writing campaign to both the dealer and mfr. so they both share your pain.
I agree in part with the comments about too much R&D being done in peoples homes. As I said near the begining of this debacle, I have personal information about the development and launch of this product and know there was a ton of pressure to launch it two summers ago whether fully ready or not. This product launch coincided with a major reduction in the engineering, quality and technical staff of the mfr. Now, they are paying the price for this move.
As bad as this product's entry into the market seems, it is by no means the end of this mfr. They recently bought out Harman Stoves for about 27.5 million in cash. HNI is a two billion dollar / yr. company that has almost no debt. The hearth side of HNI accounts for about 25% of their sales or ~500 million, at least before this recent economy. What I'm saying is, don't expect HNI to declare Chapter 11 bankruptcy over this mess. They will get it straight.
I don't agree with how they are managing their technical support but then again, they probably don't agree with how I run my company. However, as a mfr., they do have certain responsibilities to the public trust and I think they still haven't fully appreciated them. Their primary response in the issue of this stove coupled with the economic down turn has been to support their dealers at the expense of some other areas such as engineering, technical, field support, training, even sales and marketing, which are typically the sacred cows.
If there is a document from this mfr. stating for the dealer to leave the stove's vacuum switch or other safety controls bypassed then they could be in trouble. If the dealer acted on his own, then he is responsible.
Keep the fire inside the fireplace.
04-15-2008, 10:56 PM
I sit and read all these comments and can come to only one conclusion.
There are many problems with this unit and yes it was sent out into the market without the proper testing and safety assurances that they should have done before releasing it. Not only are there issues with performance but serious issues with safety.
Saying that, if in fact that they are striving in todays industry, they should make every effort to remove or recall all units that have safety issues before they have multiple lawsuits because of deaths due to releasing it too soon with said safety issues.
My situation is serious safety issues. Others have performance issues. But no one can tell me that they don't know about these issues. They know and are trying hard to rectify BUT are not trying hard enough for the people whose stoves are dangerous.
I, myself have been very patient. I have allowed the dealer to come in, multiple times and try to rectify my issues. Then have welcomed a rep from Quadra Fire to come inand also trouble shoot my issues when it became obvious that my unit is a fire hazard. It has been almost 4 weeks now since I've heard from him. Once since he's been here he e-mailed me back telling me that it won't be more than a couple of weeks to fix as long as the "dealer" does what he's supposed to do to get the parts.
He also stated to me after his visit that "I" needed to feel comfortable again about leaving my stove unattended because there is no safety issue with it.
Well blazing fires in my ashpan at 1:00 in the AM is certainly a safety issue with smoke filling up my home and soot all over my rugs, valances, blinds, window sills and furniture.
My stove also "back drafts" if that's the proper term for the wind blowing and black smoke filling my home even after parts have been replaced, along with so many other problems.
If that's all was happening, then I would feel comfortable with the manufacturer, "testing" problem solving tecniques - as long as they agree to pay for the damage it is causing to my home, but as you can see, it is soo much more than that.
Is it going to take a stove in another home that actually starts a blaze that costs a human life before they actually take full action to rectify this issue.
I have gone on their website and let them know about the problem, the current status of problem solving and the lack of timeleness and requested that someone get in touch with me asap. I fully explained the hazzard issues that I am having and not one person has gotten back to me in 2 weeks. How sad is that?? My e-mail was pleasant, polite and not intimidating in the least but it was urgent, to the point and explained the severity of my problems.
I believe that Quadra fire is telling it's employees to just make us believe that there are no real issues with this stove and that there are very isolated incedenses when in fact that is not true.
They need to step up to the plate and admit the seriousness of these problems and take care of their customers. We paid in good faith for a good product and received a sub-par product.
So what is the next step? I am writing to them directly but what makes me think that they will even respond when a direct e-mail was totally dismissed without a call?
We also own and operate our own business. We guarantee our craftsmanship, stand behind our work and always rectify our customers issues within a timely manner. I could only expect a reputable company like Quadra Fire to do the same.
04-15-2008, 11:12 PM
Address the letter to the president and copy the board of directors.
When I worked for an OEM, letters to the president were handled expeditiously.
Perhaps you should have read the instructions before calling.
04-17-2008, 10:56 AM
04-17-2008, 01:09 PM
To Quad Brand Manager, Steve Tate:
I have a problem with your online customer support. It answers absolutely no questions. You would be better off not having it, especially when the problem is the dealer. All the automated responses state to contact the dealer. Don't you find that ironic?
I also have a problem with Quadrafire doing R&D on their Mt. Vernon product in peoples homes. If you want to do R&D in homes, those people should be compensated fairly and you shouldn't have a UL listing (shame on UL-- make note-- contact UL).
I further have a problem with dealers who bypass your safeties, ashpan fires and soot gathering on walls, furniture and other items inside the house from your product. I'm also not fond of your company not having recall bulletins when parts need to be relocated for better operation and dealers subsequently contacting homeowners for warranty service with Quadrafire picking up the tab. Allowing any dealer to charge $75.00 fee just to do warranty work is outrageous.
Further, I'd like to see more professional documentation on your website. Possibly you could discover more competent HVAC companies that could work with your product.
05-24-2008, 08:56 PM
Harman or Quad Mt Vernon
Hi all, new member, Jerry in Wisconsin. I am purchasing a pellet stove in my area for the coming season. I get my pellets pretty cheap, from up north by the semi load, guys get together and you pay for what you need. Pretty nice. anyway, i am looking at either a harman xxv which i really like or the quad mt vernon. its now may, 2008 and i have read with interest the posts of the quad, (very negitive)but i understand both sides. I will be using it to only heat the basement which i have redone a portion of for a small sitting, tv room for the holidays, family over etc, to watch movies, or have a smoke ,whatever. i didn't go with corn as i was told that if you want mice, just store corn. No go. Wife would flip. can anyone tell me if the Quad has worked out their obvioulsy bad problems?? I have really leaned heavy toward the harman due to other guys i know have them and are really pleased with them . the xxv just because my wife likes the look, as with the quad mt vernon. I really don't have the money to spend to find out something has problems but the posts i've read were from 06 and early 07. i'll be looking at them , both, in the next few weeks as i want it in and ready for the fall. let me know if you have any thoughts or feelings on either of these stoves and you can get to me directly buy e-mail at email@example.com. I like hearing direct just because i don't have the time to search the posts for answers. I work road construction and am gone alot so i need fast responses that i can check on the weekends. thanks to all and you have a great forum. looking forward to hearing from you if you have any info for me. thanks
Jerry in wisconsin
05-30-2008, 10:10 AM
Jerry, it is unlikely your basement needs the capacity of the Mt. Vernon. You probably would do fine with the Castile if looks are important.
Although, if/when working properly the Mt. Vernon is very quiet running with the fan.
Please pull your email from the post and move it to your profile.
07-14-2008, 09:59 PM
Just curious if the problems have been worked out with the Mt Vernon model. Any other brand suggestions if these are proving to be troublesome units?
07-15-2008, 07:36 PM
They came down and replaced a bunch of things, unfortunately, it is summer and haven't been able to run the stove to see if the bugs are worked out!!!
We'll see come September. Unfortunately, this is a great unit, just put out before they had all the bugs worked out.
Even thought it took a while to get fixed, hopefully, I still like the stove and look of it. It puts out a lot of heat. My main floor is 3000 square feet and all open xcept for about 975 of it. I have never turned my heat on on this level yet because of the usage of the stove. Unless the stove was not working HAHA.
Unfortunately, because of the humidity, I can smell the soot in my home.