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11-28-2006, 06:33 PM #14Regular Guest
- Join Date
- Nov 2006
18 day old Mt Vernon Pellet Stove AE failing once again!
Deja Vue all over again!
Since installation of the stove on 11/11/06, the stove has only worked 8 out of the 18 days and is now once again not working.
It stopped working on Sunday (11/26/06) with the "Conv Blower Jammed" error on the display.
Contacted the dealer, early Monday morning with information as to error. Dealer contacted Quadra-Fire as soon as they could get through to them on the phone, then called me back saying the parts (blower and wiring harness) will be shipped "Next Day" to them for installation.
Well now it is Tuesday. At noon, I checked with dealer to see if they did indeed receive the parts. No, they did not receive any of the parts. At the latest, these parts should have been received and installed the next day!!!
I called Quadra-Fire to get information as to when I could expect the parts to arrive. They refused to give me any information, saying I will need to contact the dealer. Expressed my disappointment with their (Quadra-Fire) service. They gave me a case number and said they will check it out. I presume this may be something like the question I had previously posted on Quadra-Fire's web site and didn't get an answer back till 7 days later. This is not at all expectable. Very poooooor service to consumers or to me anyway.
I am getting very concerned for when and if I have any problems with the stove a year from now. Will they be giving me this same support? This was a new stove and has been in service for only 18 days, but has only worked 8 out of these 18 days and is not working at this time.
Could it be that I got a lemon?
Well, this is the final straw. I am not going to fix this baby this time. If the stove is not working when I get home from work tomorrow evening, it will be removed and set outside.
This is a great looking stove and when it is working, it does produce heat and dumps the ashes. But, at this time, I really would not recommend this stove to anyone.
11-28-2006, 08:19 PM #15Regular Guest
- Join Date
- May 2005
- Madison, WI
You are a very impatient person. I bet you are very rude to the dealer and that is only going to make them want to help you less. Right now if someone calls us with a broken fireplace they have to wait 2 weeks because we are booked solid for service, unless it is some sort of emergency in which case I myself will go out within a few days. Expecting next day service on a new product during the burn season is unreasonable at best.
11-28-2006, 08:49 PM #16leeann Guest
Mt. Vernon Stove
Are we as consumers just suppose to lay down and put up with a MAJORLY DEFECTIVE product? We have the right to return any defective item.....I am sure if you have experienced some of the problems that some of us Quardra Fire owners have you may think differently.....Unreasonable I AM NOT!! I did expect more from a nearly $3000. product! I had MORE problems after the "Factory Rep" or District Sales Manager ( which is all he was) he instructed the tech from my dealer on what to do to our stove.....This guy didn't even know how to fix anything, he was thumbing through the owners manuel as to try and figure out what to do.....My ENTIRE inside of my stove was ENGULFED in flames after their little visit!
I simply did not feel safe with this product in my home, and YES! This is my right!
Like the other poster with some of the same problems....I called QuadraFire and got shoved from one phone line to another, NO ONE at that company could or would give me any real answers on who I could talk to to get this problem taken care of. The dealer just didn't want to loose a sale, BUT I was not getting stuck with a BAD PRODUCT!
Sooooo.....No one would listen to me or my conserns, so I made them listen through the Better Business Bureau and filing the dispute. And yes! I did raise my voice to a few people, because that is the only way they seemed to take me seriously!
I am sorry if you think I am unresonable for expecting more from a product that just didn't meet my expectations!
11-28-2006, 09:09 PM #17leeann Guest
Stove got removed today!
Sorry you are still having problems with your stove....
They are great looking and work great, WHEN they want to work, but the problems for us out numbered the enjoyment we were looking forward to.
I do hope you get the outcome you are seeking! But like I said, if they wont listen, MAKE THEM!
Take care and good luck!
11-29-2006, 01:04 AM #18
I am very sorry you two have had such a bad experience. Quad has a pretty good reputation within the industry.
As for your impatience, while you have been through a lot with this stove and I'm sure very frustrated, they aren't going to hire a jet fighter to swoop in, pick up the part and parachute it to you. You said the dealer didn't make contact with them until later on Monday. They probably had to track down an engineer and discuss a course of action, get approval, then put the request in to have the part sent overnite. That order probably did not get placed until Tues morning after 09:00am Left Coast Time.If Fed Ex picked up the package later on Tues, that means the earliest your dealer could possibly see it is Weds. before closing and you're already busting on them because the SWAT team hasn't rappelled down with your part. This time of yr., it is normal for parts to take about 2 weeks to get to you, for example, regardless of mfr. Some take months.
I'm sorry, you have had a lot of problems with this unit. However, when I read your impatience and attitude, I do bein to wonder if JTP may not be right. You bought the stove in the heart of the burn season. Think of air conditioning in July during a heat wave. You are not going to get the same service as you can in March or Oct. are you? They are under staffed because the factory is in the middle of nowhere and the talent pool is very thin. They are doing the best they can. You bought the first run of a brand new technology. Many people hold off when a new car model is released waiting for the bugs to get worked out. Those who buy brand new models usually understand there may be some bugs to work out. I think you could adjust your expectations down a little and be a little more cooperative.
There's an old saying, "you catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar". If you want more cooperation from your dealer or the mfr. try a softer approach.
11-29-2006, 09:13 PM #19Regular Guest
- Join Date
- Nov 2006
What is Quadra-Fire's definition of "Parts will be shipped Next Day Air"
I wish I could live in your world of make-beleive. What world are you guys living in? It appears you may have diffaculty understanding what it means when someone says "The Parts will be shipped Next Day Air".
Just maybe you couldn't understand what I was trying to say. I will try once more to explain as best I can. May have sounded way off the wall?
I am once again having issues w/ the new Mt Vernon Pellet Stove. Getting error "Conv Blower Jammed". The stove starts by feeding pellets, then lights them (actual flames do start) and produces heat. When the convection blower tries to start, it goes for a short time then stops with the error.
Contacted the dealer (Monday morning), who in turn contacted Quadra-Fire. Dealer called me back around 11:00AM EST on Monday 11/27/06 (this would be around 8:00AM, as you say, left coast time) and said they (dealer) were informed that the parts will be shipped next day air from Quadra-Fire.
In my line of bussiness, this has always and still does mean that the sender will be shipping the parts, that same day (Monday 11/27/06) Next Day Air to the dealer and the dealer will receive the parts on or before 12:00 noon on the following day.
What I am interpreting your previous post to say, is:
This is not what "Next Day Air" means for Quadra-Fire or your line of business. You stated that the issue may go to Engineering, then if and when a decision or approval has been granted, they (Engineering) will inform the manufacturing facilaty to go ahead and get parts ready to ship and, by the way, the manufacturing facility is out in the country and the people have limeted skills. Then when the parts are ready to ship, they should be shipped using next day air and don't complain if it doesn't ship till 14 more days.
Also, by the way, because I bought a new type of stove and actually paid money for it, I need to expect it not to work from time to time. If it is out of commision for more than 50% of the time, you are indeed expecting me to just step back and wait for everything to fall back in place as and when the dealer and Quadra-Fire elect to act. Just relax, the parts are in the mail. It will work eventually. But it is a good looking stove. Doesn't work, but it looks like it should.
This is how I interpreted what you are trying to tell me. You may have intended something else, but that is what it ment to me. You also informed me that expecting an actual "Next Day Delivery" would be way out of line and unreasonable. You really do need to get back in touch with today's technology of "Next Day Air".
If this is indeed what you are intending it to mean, and you were my dealer, I really prefer not to deal with you at all and would search out a new dealer.
But thanks anyway, for your thoughts.
11-29-2006, 09:35 PM #20Regular Guest
- Join Date
- Apr 2002
Sorry you are still having problems with your stove.
You might be expecting fast service based on your experience with other businesses and industries, but you don't have a contractual right to such service based on a simple contract.
Did you include the phrase "time is of the essence with any repair or problem with this equipment" in the contract when you purchased the equipment? If so, you probably have a right to such quick service. If you didn't, you don't.
The manufacturer has an obligation to replace any defective parts under the warrentee, but I'd be surprised if they have any obligation to ship them out next day air, even if they say they will. Or perhaps the parts were unavailable when the order got to the warehouse. You may be unhappy, but in such cases I doubt that the manufacturer is breeching it's warrentee.
Ditto for the dealer. They can't install the parts until they receive them, and they have no particular obligation to install the parts ahead of other people waiting for service and repairs.
You can disconnect the equipment and put it "outside," but you already bought it ---you have no contractual right to expect the dealer to take it back because there are problems with it that need to be repaired.
So here's my question: where in your contract did you include labguage that gave you the right to return the equipment if you were unhappy with it, or to get next day air shipping for parts that were needed or instant installation of the parts once they were received? If you included such language, then you are entitled.
If you didn't, the manufacturer and dealer have to make repairs and do so in a reasonable manner. But I don't think your ideas of service are reasonable.
That's not to say that I blame you for being impatient to want you new equipment to work properly. I don't blame you a bit, and I'd feel the same way.
But I'd encourage you to think a bit about what rights you actually have under the contract, which are different from those you WISH you had. Going too far in brow beating some employee for the manufacturer or dealer may be counterproductive at some point.
Be smart. Treat them in a way that gets them to feel sorry for you and like jerks themselves for not solving the problems of your stove. That will probably get you better service faster than being angry at them.
11-30-2006, 07:12 AM #21Regular Guest
- Join Date
- Nov 2006
Service Tech. says he replaced parts and it is still not working.
Dealer stopped in last night and replaced some parts.
Now it will not light up or start a fire at all. He replaced parts, told my wife "It should be starting up shortly, if it doesn't start, give us a call", then he left. Well, it's not working again.
12-05-2006, 10:03 AM #22Regular Guest
- Join Date
- Nov 2006
The Hearth&Home Quadra-Fire Stove has now been returned.
I went ahead and took the stove and set it outside (under the porch) for the dealer to come and pick up.
Dealer called to check how stove was working and was told that it had been removed.
My wife got a call from Hearth & Home regional rep/office informing her that they will be getting the stove to work and I should give him a call. Didn't know they even had a regional office. Gave him a call and left message on his voice mail. Haven't heard from him as yet (12/5/06).
Tech. (Sugarcreek Heating & AC) stopped to work on stove and my wife informed him that it was ready for him to take back. He was back a short time later with help to load into truck. No hassele their and they will be crediting my credit card.
It is nice to use a credit card for these issues, b/c they (credit card people) will work with you in disputing any claimes, if need be.
Well now I will need to get busy once more in searching out for a new Pellet Stove. No, it will not be a Hearth and Home (Quadra-Fire) product.
I do appologize if I was rude and/or appeared to be rude in any way. I truly do appreciate all of your comments and encouragement. Still am in total amazement at what little support service and guidance I could get from the actual manufacture of the stove. I presume they really do not wish to be bothered at all, by the consumer.
Thanks again everyone for allowing me to use you as a sounding board in venting my frustrations.
12-05-2006, 06:00 PM #23
this has caught attention
Andy, I sent a link to this thread to some Regional Sales Reps. I know and they were deeply concerned. Apparently, this thread has caught the attention of some brass so hopefully change will come.
As for the problems with the new stove, the Rep. explained that one of the problems found with the power supply was in the heat sinks. The supplier of this component is new to the hearth industry (medical equipment), and new to HHT for their quality assurance measures. What they found was the screws retaining the heat sinks vibrated loose causing the unit to overheat and shut off. A little Loctite and some changes in the Q&A program should take care of it. This just goes to show that no matter how much testing is done in the lab, the real world is the ultimate lab.
As for this particular model stove, the designer claims he was given "an unlimited buget" and exceeded it. Maybe with all the hoopla over this stove, some aspects of reliability were simply not tested before it was rushed to market. You see, every mfr. is in a rush to get a leg up on the competition. As soon as an engineer announces a concept the brass likes, the genie is out of the bottle. It becomes a mad rush to get a working model in time for the Int'l Bldr. Show in January each yr. About 4-6 weeks after that is the big Hearth, Patio, and BBA Assn. EXPO where it is unveiled to the hearth industry. Here, it is entered into a design competion called the Vesta Awards. This unit won first place this Spring in Salt Lake City. From there on, it was a mad rush to work out the bugs and get it to market. At the show, the unit was being run off a laptop computer behind a curtain. Into the summer, the suppliers for the various components were still being evaluated and oriented. Just when you think you have things worked out, you find your supplier switch his sources for materials and parts without telling you. There are signed agreements against this. Such matters affect the product listing if it is serious enough. That's why UL spot checks quarterly.
I shared this because a lot of people read this thread so I wanted them to understand what goes into bringing a product to market, esp. one so highly touted as a whole next generation model, which this certainly is. Its just a shame ya'll had to be the guinea pigs on these first units. Like all products, this one has a learning curve. You just got caught in the traffic.
The good news is, there are many other good brands out there. They all have their ups and downs with service. While things in your case certainly could have and should have been handled better, overall, the mfr. responded pretty well and did the right thing. I can understand why you may feel biased against this mfr, who I have no personal interest in other than I know them well and have their Castile pellet stove, which works great.
I hope your take away lesson from this more so than brands and models is dealer support. If your local dealer is too far away or not responsive, shop elsewhere. Ask for references.
12-05-2006, 07:07 PM #24Regular Guest
- Join Date
- May 2005
- Madison, WI
Great post hearthman, every bit is 100% truth.
Only thing else I can say is I wish you had been near me. I would have personaly came out and worked on it myself to get it working for you.
12-06-2006, 12:29 AM #25Regular Guest
- Join Date
- Apr 2002
Good post Hearthman! It's nice to get an idea of what they are doing behind the curtain.
I always imagine that Dilbert and his work group are designing gas fireplaces when I find one that is a pain in the neck to work on. But perhaps it's pellet stoves instead.
This thread should be a warning to those early adaoptors who want all the latest and most hyped technology. That can be a big pain in the neck until unanticipated problems have been worked out.
12-07-2006, 02:32 AM #26
From a retailer dealing with a different manufacturer
I have watched this thread with interest from the sidelines.
Today, I robbed a log support from a showroom insert to install in my customers fireplace. They have patiently waited two weeks for this part (missing from the brand new box). I have waited over 3 MONTHS for a simple valve cover for another unit I sold to someone else.
There is another client who bought 4 fireplaces from me for their new home, the one in the Great Room makes a loud roaring noise after running for more than an hour.
Manufacturer says this is normal.
It sucks when your suppliers make it hard for you to give your customers good service, but that is the reality of todays competitive marketplace. The fireplace industry is currently going full boar, and everyone wants their unit installed before Christmas.
I would suggest the original poster do some research, and make his purchase in late January when the hearth industry has a chance to catch it's breath.Trust me, I know what I'm doing.