Emerson Refrigeration 1 Day Class

[cajunhvac75]

Has anyone been to one of these? Anything in particular that I should study beforehand to get the most out of the class(I'm fairly new to refrigeration)? Was it worth the $250 (already paid through United but just curious)?

[Phase Loss]

Do you have any current experience in the industry?

[cajunhvac75]

Tech school, 10 months as a helper and many hours of reading. We do mostly resi, but take care of a supermarket, a few bars, lots of ice machines (camps and houseboats mostly) and a few restaurants. So I've been exposed to refrigeration, but not on a regular basis...which makes it more difficult for me to learn and retain.

[dstrong]

In this business take as many classes as you can. Even if you only retain only 25% that is twenty five percent more knowledge than 50% of the people out there. It also shows that you are serious about your trade to the people you work for. Have you joined RSES?

[cajunhvac75]

I haven't joined RSES yet. I've looked into NATE certifications, mainly because the classes that I have coming up would pretty much take care of my continuing education hours (this class plus I'm going to the Manitowoc factory for a week in March). But apparently NATE means almost nothing around here...homeowners and businesses have no idea what it is. Maybe one day I will get Nate certified for my own benefit, but for now I figure I'm better off spending my money on tools, books and classes.

[nchvac]

Who holds these Emerson Classes? I thought about going to the Manitowac class. It's a week long isn't it?

[cajunhvac75]

The Emerson class that I'm going to is through United Refrigeration (at a hotel here). I actually asked about the Manitowoc factory class on here, and everyone that responded said that they give great factory classes. All of their factory classes are a week long and about $800 (includes hotel, breakfast and lunch).

[Phase Loss]

Now a week long class is something of value. It gives you time to absorb the information & ask questions throughout the week.

A 1 day course may leave you with a lot of fuzzy information.

[Royal241]

I went to one of those about 3+ years ago, paid about $650 in Boston area (United Refigeration had them), learned a lot, but I focused on the semi-hermetic compressors. After that class I always rip apart a failed compressor, I understand how to find out the fail cause and fix it before a second failure. Oh, they have a lot of good food also, lol.

[cajunhvac75]

I went to the class today and thought it was pretty good. I did learn a few new things, but I think that the class was too focused on the basic fundamentals of refrigeration. Most of it was the same material as the introductions and highlights of each chapter in my refrigeration text book. Emerson makes Copeland compressors, so the majority of what I didn't already know was about their compressors. The CoreSense protection modules that mount on their compressors seem pretty cool, and they say that they will be on all of their compressors in the future (refrigeration, air conditioning (including resi), but not their small recips in reach-ins). I wish the troubleshooting aspect would have been focused on more...plenty on the basic causes of problems...not so much on the actual hands-on diagnosis and repair. If you know your stuff, you can probably skip this class and go to the 2-day class...they actually take apart semi-herms. That must be the one that you went to Royal241, as we didn't take anything apart and the food was pretty much just catered Subway.

[Copeland Tim]

Make sure you fill out the survey at the end of the class. This is good feedback!

[nchvac]

I went to the class today and thought it was pretty good. I did learn a few new things, but I think that the class was too focused on the basic fundamentals of refrigeration. Most of it was the same material as the introductions and highlights of each chapter in my refrigeration text book. Emerson makes Copeland compressors, so the majority of what I didn't already know was about their compressors. The CoreSense protection modules that mount on their compressors seem pretty cool, and they say that they will be on all of their compressors in the future (refrigeration, air conditioning (including resi), but not their small recips in reach-ins). I wish the troubleshooting aspect would have been focused on more...plenty on the basic causes of problems...not so much on the actual hands-on diagnosis and repair. If you know your stuff, you can probably skip this class and go to the 2-day class...they actually take apart semi-herms. That must be the one that you went to Royal241, as we didn't take anything apart and the food was pretty much just catered Subway.

What is the CoreSense module used for?

[Copeland Tim]

CoreSence uses the compressor as a sensor to monitor and interpret compressor and system information. It provides protection, diagnostics and communications for Copeland Discuss and Scroll compressors.

http://www.emersonclimate.com/en-us/...echnology.aspx

[cajunhvac75]

Tim, is it true that CoreSence will be on all but the smallest Copeland's in the future? ETA? Is that going to be cost effective for customers like Goodman?

[craig1]

Tim, is it true that CoreSence will be on all but the smallest Copeland's in the future? ETA? Is that going to be cost effective for customers like Goodman?

I was questioning this at first, but it actually makes total sense. The actual electronics are dirt cheap, and flash memory is even cheaper. An 8 gig flash drive could hold decades of run history. If a coresense technology plus datalogging was incorporated into every compressor, they could mandate the flash drive be turned in with every compressor warranty claim. The result would be that they could deny 95% of claims based on the fact that the compressor was killed, and didn't fail from defects.

It's already here with cars, manufactures are denying claims based on info from the datalogger. One well known case was the Nissan GTR, in which just turning on a "race mode" instantly voids the power train warranty.

[Slatts]

I love it when the reps drop in to a forum.

It shows that they care about us poor buggers in the field.

Thanks for the link Tim.

[Copeland Tim]

yes, our goal is to incorporate electronic diagnostics and monitoring where it makes sense. Craig made a good point, it is relatively inexpensive and the benefits far out weight the cost of the device. Our intent is not to deny warranty claims or point the finger at who is to blame, we want the be proactive and prevent a failure before it happens.

Warranty claims are like death and taxes...

Tim, is it true that CoreSence will be on all but the smallest Copeland's in the future? ETA? Is that going to be cost effective for customers like Goodman?

[nchvac]

So what about these electronics being another part to fail? I assume when it senses an overload it shuts off power to the windings. Can it be bypassed?
Refrigeration is something we don't want to turn off for an electronic fart.

[Copeland Tim]

Yea, I'm not sure what an electronic fart is... The only lockout on Discus compressors are low oil pressure and thats always been the case. The other is the discharge line sensor and that is (optional). As for Scroll K5 refrigeration compressors they will only lockout on reverse phase sensing. Lockouts can be activated by the DIP switches on the controller.

The CoreSence modules are also the motor overload protection and should not be bypassed. Electronic motor overloads have been used for years on refrigeration compressors so this is really nothing new.

[nchvac]

Yea, I'm not sure what an electronic fart is... The only lockout on Discus compressors are low oil pressure and thats always been the case. The other is the discharge line sensor and that is (optional). As for Scroll K5 refrigeration compressors they will only lockout on reverse phase sensing. Lockouts can be activated by the DIP switches on the controller.

The CoreSence modules are also the motor overload protection and should not be bypassed. Electronic motor overloads have been used for years on refrigeration compressors so this is really nothing new.

Those colored LED lights are hard for color blind techs to tell what the code is. Being that a large majority of men are color blind, looks like they would stay away from color coded faults.
Device just looks to me like another part that can fail. I can see a use for it on a refrigeration rack, but not hvac.