False load

[ryan1088]

Had teachers in HS who would drape wet paper towels over the pneumatic thermostats so the classroom would be warmer. One teacher got caught and they put a different cover on it to stop him. He figured out he could just turn the dial that changed the temp with the new cover with a pencil eraser. lol

I remember that old trick worked in our high school too. Boy that radiant loop could really put out some heat too !

[socotech]

Found this one today. It's vanilla!

[Sicofthis]

Its an epidemic.

[ControlsInMT]

Had a vehicle maintenance shop that had an electric battery warmer taped to the the sensor. Also had the hand warmers taped to them. I think there is an underground organization that passes around all of the ways to screw with systems.

[chesehd]

I had teachers in an entire district (30+ schools) collaborating on how to get around the DDC limitations. Limits set by the district office, I might add. My favorite was walking into a classroom and finding a ziploc bag of ice cubes draped over the electronic sensor. And they wondered how I could tell there was water damage to the device...amazing...

[tedkidd]

Who manages set point? What a$$ thinks it's fun to make occupants uncomfortable?

Whats cost effective about saving $5 on energy and $500 replacing controls? Can anyone explain what I'm not seeing?

[socotech]

Who manages set point? What a$$ thinks it's fun to make occupants uncomfortable?

Whats cost effective about saving $5 on energy and $500 replacing controls? Can anyone explain what I'm not seeing?

The District Office manages setpoints.

[ControlsInMT]

Who manages set point? What a$$ thinks it's fun to make occupants uncomfortable?

Whats cost effective about saving $5 on energy and $500 replacing controls? Can anyone explain what I'm not seeing?

There is a lot more to be saved than $5 on energy. We showed a 20% energy reduction when we implemented DDC in a major project back in 2000 (5 year payback). Most of our set points are DOD or DOE mandates or from the Governor's office. Is it really cost effective to heat a room to 78 degrees when it's -20 or cool to 66 when it's 100 outside? No.

Now a question for you, why is it necessary to treat adults like children when they will not follow the mandates? If everyone would follow the mandates, there would still be T87 thermostats controlling everything. Why do we put motion sensors on lights? Because people are too lazy or just don't care about saving energy unless they are the ones paying the bill. I fight this battle on a daily basis.

The ironic part is, ask them what they keep there house at....usually 78 for cooling and 68 for heating, go figure!

[nsula_country]

Attachment 331711

Minimum setpoint allowed by EMS is 72 degrees. I guess this is one way to get around it.

Freaking AWESOME! Never underestimate a teacher.

CT

[ryan1088]

Freaking AWESOME! Never underestimate a teacher.

CT

Don't completely discount the common sense of all teachers. Mine is a 3rd grade teacher and she wouldn't be doing this. Although I do see this a lot here at work......

[tedkidd]

Sure, but might there not be a justified comfort complaint?

For example, where IS the thermostat? Are there serious problems with the enclosure? I mean these are pretty serious stupid human tricks, do you think people are going to these lengths because they're dip$#its, or because they are justifiably experiencing discomfort?

http://bit.ly/comfortcalculator

What's the point of having a school if people are so distracted by discomfort they can't learn?

[ControlsInMT]

Sure, but might there not be a justified comfort complaint?

For example, where IS the thermostat? Are there serious problems with the enclosure? I mean these are pretty serious stupid human tricks, do you think people are going to these lengths because they're dip$#its, or because they are justifiably experiencing discomfort?

http://bit.ly/comfortcalculator

What's the point of having a school if people are so distracted by discomfort they can't learn?

IMHO, most times the occupants are not helping the situation. For example wearing short sleeve shirts or summer attire during the winter months. Are there potentially problems, yes. That's were the great invention of dataloggers come in. In my experience, approximately 75% of the time there is no problem with the system.

Quite often it is also just because they don't like having someone else in control. We quit installing sensors with displays. Why? Because if it was 71 and set at 72 they would call and complain. No display, ask them if they are comfortable and they say yes while room is still only the 71.

Can you really tell the difference between working in a 71 degree area as opposed to a 72? Again, right back to ask them what they keep their house at. I would lay money down that it is nowhere near what they expect a public building to be. Are they comfortable in their home?

If everyone had an unlimited budget, you bet every person in a building would be comfortable. Reality is, that is not the case. Do you vote yes on every school levy that comes along? Maybe you need to start a campaign to have a new levy just for paying utitlity bills.

[ControlsInMT]

I played with your calculator and found most should be comfortable standing in light business suit at close to 65 degrees. Now that was with low humidity, which is my climate.