There is a lot more to be saved than $5 on energy. We showed a 20% energy reduction when we implemented DDC in a major project back in 2000 (5 year payback). Most of our set points are DOD or DOE mandates or from the Governor's office. Is it really cost effective to heat a room to 78 degrees when it's -20 or cool to 66 when it's 100 outside? No.
Now a question for you, why is it necessary to treat adults like children when they will not follow the mandates? If everyone would follow the mandates, there would still be T87 thermostats controlling everything. Why do we put motion sensors on lights? Because people are too lazy or just don't care about saving energy unless they are the ones paying the bill. I fight this battle on a daily basis.
The ironic part is, ask them what they keep there house at....usually 78 for cooling and 68 for heating, go figure!
Don't worry zombies are looking for brains, you're safe...
Sure, but might there not be a justified comfort complaint?
For example, where IS the thermostat? Are there serious problems with the enclosure? I mean these are pretty serious stupid human tricks, do you think people are going to these lengths because they're dip$#its, or because they are justifiably experiencing discomfort?
http://bit.ly/comfortcalculator
What's the point of having a school if people are so distracted by discomfort they can't learn?
IMHO, most times the occupants are not helping the situation. For example wearing short sleeve shirts or summer attire during the winter months. Are there potentially problems, yes. That's were the great invention of dataloggers come in. In my experience, approximately 75% of the time there is no problem with the system.
Quite often it is also just because they don't like having someone else in control. We quit installing sensors with displays. Why? Because if it was 71 and set at 72 they would call and complain. No display, ask them if they are comfortable and they say yes while room is still only the 71.
Can you really tell the difference between working in a 71 degree area as opposed to a 72? Again, right back to ask them what they keep their house at. I would lay money down that it is nowhere near what they expect a public building to be. Are they comfortable in their home?
If everyone had an unlimited budget, you bet every person in a building would be comfortable. Reality is, that is not the case. Do you vote yes on every school levy that comes along? Maybe you need to start a campaign to have a new levy just for paying utitlity bills.
Don't worry zombies are looking for brains, you're safe...
I played with your calculator and found most should be comfortable standing in light business suit at close to 65 degrees. Now that was with low humidity, which is my climate.
Don't worry zombies are looking for brains, you're safe...
I'm absolutely for controls.
But assuming the energy savings from controls is because the building is a little colder rather than recognizing people used to open window when the building was out of control is not connecting the savings with the cause.
Make People Comfortable and stupid human tricks stop. Stop stupid human tricks, and you'll save MUCH more than you can from a degree or two at the stat.
And an additional often unrecognized benefit (and therefore not factored in analysis) is people's productivity goes way up.
Check out that link, Bean paints the whole picture. The guy is brilliant!
As my boss would say, "that's a hardware fix to a management issue". We don't have any authority or control over occupants. Once they are held finacially accountable for the damage caused, they begin to have a new outlook. As I said before, this is in the areas where there are no problems. I actually heard one teacher tell me she wanted her class 75 degrees because it makes the students sleepy. So is that comfort?
Don't worry zombies are looking for brains, you're safe...
Nice! No doubt there are lots of sides to it. And I agree, accountability for damage should occur!
This is comfort: http://bit.ly/comfortcalculator
Maybe the control smelled really bad...
Every customer you take for granted today will be someone else's tomorrow.
The district I was referring to earlier had a heating setpoint of 70*F and a cooling setpoint of 74*F.
If vandalism aS the reason behind the room sensor failure the teacher was charged. Those Siemens 540-680 sensors were far from cheap as I recall.
Check THIS out!
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...mber_195980768
Excerpt from LinkedIn:
If you focus on how to deliver comfort, energy falls into place.
"Building focused design is not occupant focused design -
Some words of wisdom to design by:
We can not forget - energy efficiency in buildings is for the benefit of conditioning the occupants. Dr. B.W. Olesen
An energy declaration without a declaration related to the indoor environment makes no sense. Dr. F. Nicol"
Robert Bean's depth of perspective makes my head cramp and eyes bleed.
Here is another
lol. warm climate?
subtle...