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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    13
    This is the Ask Our Pro's forum. In order to post a response here, you must have verified qualifications and have been approved by the AOP Committee. You may ask a question by starting a new thread.

    You can find the rules for posting and qualifications here.

    Additional infractions may result in loss of posting privileges.
    Last edited by jpsmith1cm; 11-29-2012 at 08:40 PM. Reason: non AOP member

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Western PA
    Posts
    25,930
    Coolingfolks


    This is the Ask Our Pro's forum. In order to post a response here, you must have verified qualifications and have been approved by the AOP Committee. You may ask a question by starting a new thread.

    You can find the rules for posting and qualifications here.

    Additional infractions may result in loss of posting privileges.

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Moore, Oklahoma, United States
    Posts
    4,505
    Quote Originally Posted by jtrammel View Post
    I don't understand why they would sell you a 16 seer 2 stage unit and jump out 2nd stage and match it with an existing contaminated evaporator coil. They should have explained all of this to you before selling you this equipment. If they did then its on you for not wanting to spend the extra money to do it right, If they did not then they did you a huge disservice and its time for a new hvac contractor.
    +1. Most contractors will tell you it requires a matching air handler to actually GET the 16 SEER.

  4. #17
    I just had the HVAC company back out.

    I did verify (after finding my receipt) that it is a 4 ton unit and they did replace the coil.

    The tech came out and verified the system is low on Puron. He stated the coils they were installing at the time ended up being faulty and leaking (he said they have replaced a good 70 of them). He stated the new coils are all aluminum and are a 10-plate unit (if I recall correctly) vs an 8 plate that is currently in there. The new coil is also aluminum so I won't have this issue.

    All of this is under warranty so $0 out of pocket. I asked about the two stage deal. He stated because my air handler is a single stage that the 2-stage wiring is in the unit itself. Basically if the heat is running for so long the 2nd stage will kick on (or something to that effect).

    We didn't have any discussions about SEER ratings when we purchased this unit. It was a deal where we bought a bank owned home, sunk a chunk of time/money getting it ready to move in to find out the heat pump was toast the day we moved in (which just so happened to be the hottest day of the year). They came out, suggested going with a Carrier unit as they have a better history with those and a good warranty, and replaced it. $ out the door and got a tax credit that gave us about $ back that year as well.

    They will be back Wednesday to replace the coil - I will post the results when they finish up.
    Last edited by Chris_Worthington; 12-08-2012 at 01:04 PM. Reason: Pricing Removed

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Richmond, VA
    Posts
    2,989
    That doesn't make sense.....

    That's an infinity heatpump crippled by a single stage thermostat and non matching infinity airhandler. The Outdoor unit has no logic to automatically switch to high speed-It has to be wired.

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Moore, Oklahoma, United States
    Posts
    4,505
    Quote Originally Posted by beshvac View Post
    That doesn't make sense.....

    That's an infinity heatpump crippled by a single stage thermostat and non matching infinity airhandler. The Outdoor unit has no logic to automatically switch to high speed-It has to be wired.
    It's all about getting those rebates/credits, not actual system performance. If it was about performance, sizing and energy savings would be verified.

  7. #20
    The saga continues...

    After replacing the coil we soon went on vacation. We came back to a heat pump that was putting out no heat at all. My Hunter T-stat doesn't handle this situation well, making the heat pump run until it is 4 degrees before the set point then it kicks in the furnace heat strips.

    HVAC place comes back out, finds the copper line inside the unit split open. He repaired that, but couldn't get the compressor to full pressure. He was here for a couple hours, spoke with Carrier tech support, and discovered this heat pump has a service bulletin for the compressor.

    He ended up going back to the office, finding out all the details on what has to happen. He sent me the paperwork that Carrier required (no BS there, Carrier is pretty specific in it), and there must be a pretty big issue with these compressors as they have a full buy-back program. Sadly, I'm out of the free buy-back replacement. But the HVAC place hooked us up and are giving the labor credit back to us, so we don't have to pay a whole lot for a brand new unit and get a 10 year warranty now. Piece of mind was worth several hundred bucks vs. a new compressor 1.5 years left on a warranty.

    I upgraded my T-Stat today. No Honeywell for me...spent the bigger bucks and got a 2nd Generation Nest. I will make sure the 2nd stage gets properly wired to this as well. Sadly, I can't get to play with it much as none of the cool features work in Emergency Heat mode.

  8. #21
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    1,398
    If they do not replace the indoor air handler with the Infinity variable speed, get the credit and have them install a single stage outdoor unit. The 2 stage condenser is not rated with a single speed indoor unit. You can verify that by looking at Carrier's Product Data Sheet for the outdoor unit.

    Return the Nest if you can. The Infinity stat is much better.
    Climate Control Solutions for your Home or Office

    Serving Northeast Philadelphia and Surrounding Areas

  9. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by comfortdoc View Post
    Return the Nest if you can. The Infinity stat is much better.
    What makes it "better?"

    I did a little research, and it looks like Carrier has two models that could possibly compete with the Nest.

    #1 is the Infinity Control. It prices out at nearly double what I paid for my Nest. And at that price, you don't even get wifi unless you buy a SAM module (and from what little pricing I found is about the cost of the Infinity Control unit). Further, I tried out the demo site for their remote management and it is a joke. I also read somewhere there is a yearly fee to go along with it (not totally sure if that is true or not...I'd sure hope not).

    Further, the Infinity Control isn't a learning thermostat. Just another 7 day programmable. It obviously isn't nearly as slick looking though costing far more. From what I'm seeing, you spend a LOT more money and get a lot less.

    #2 is the Carrier ComfortChoice Touch Thermostat. Now this DOES look like a real Nest contender. Very nice display, touchscreen, and designed for areas that do electric pricing changes depending on time of day. Where I live, we have AEP for power...an awful power company that has no use in doing things like variable pricing to help load management (and potential savings to customers), so that main feature I couldn't utilize. This thermostat still isn't a learning unit, doesn't look like it can take firmware updates through the wireless interface, and I'm guessing costs a small fortune (couldn't find any pricing info - looks to be a very new product).

    The 2nd gen Nest can do 3 stage heating, 2 stage cooling, humidifier or dehumidifier control, zone systems, dual fuel systems, 1 and 2 stage heat pumps. They added a lot to the 2nd gen unit.

  10. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Keokuk, IA
    Posts
    5,520
    Compete with the nest? Carrier Infinity is on a whole higher level that the Nest can't match in terms of airflow control, system integration and overall comfort control. No, it can anticipate you schedule usign a motion sensor, but if you utilized zone control with properly sized or even undersized equipment, you could see even bigger energy savings. Its' the only modulaing residential zone system (that I'm aware of). Infinity can also connect to a time of use smart electric meter and you can set it's response when on high demand rates. Inifinity is also a "Controller" not a thermostat. It communicates with the equipment like the engine computer in your car. No relays that click. You can see outdoor coil temps, aiflows, static pressure at the air handler/furnace, equipment cycles counter and runtime data in each stage. For dehumidification, it doesn't just drop the fan speed 15-20%. Depending on outdoor conditions and sensible vs. latent demand, it can drop all he way down to around 225CFM/ton with no risk to the equipment. It's pretty impressive. A standard 15-20% drop is 300-325 CFM/ton.

    I think a lot of pros on here prefer the Ecobee over the Nest for sommunicating systems. I know is my home that the location that would capture movement on the nest would not be ideal to control temperature because I have an older home with things downstairs called room, formed by interior walls. I have 4 microclimates within my downstairs. Better ot zone control it, which is where the Infinity really, really shines.

  11. #24
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    SE Washington
    Posts
    559
    this heat pump is a communicating unit designed to be used with an infinity air handler and matched control, it NEVER should have been used with the Lennox air handler, total disregard for customer as far as allowing this kind of mismatch, ouch! a black eye (again) on our trade
    Total Energy Management, inc

  12. #25
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Moore, Oklahoma, United States
    Posts
    4,505
    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrousbird View Post
    What makes it "better?"

    #2 is the Carrier ComfortChoice Touch Thermostat. Now this DOES look like a real Nest contender. Very nice display, touchscreen, and designed for areas that do electric pricing changes depending on time of day. Where I live, we have AEP for power...an awful power company that has no use in doing things like variable pricing to help load management (and potential savings to customers), so that main feature I couldn't utilize. This thermostat still isn't a learning unit, doesn't look like it can take firmware updates through the wireless interface, and I'm guessing costs a small fortune (couldn't find any pricing info - looks to be a very new product).
    Our utility does the energy management system like you are talking about. They currently use energate thermostats for the smarthours program. If you a have smartmeter installed the program may be coming to your utility soon. Some utilities are already offering time of use rates. Other utilities are watching OG&E to see how successful the program is. My job is actually installing and maintaining the thermostats, we have 30,000 installed in our area so far. And best of all the thermostat and installation is FREE to customers signing up for smarthours. It would be interesting to see if any utilities have used ComfortChoice for their VPP program and how they have worked out. The ComfortChoice is a very nice thermostat, I don't see utilities giving them away for free.

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