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  1. #14
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    Feb 2007
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    As a junior in high school, my final essay answer for the real cause of the civil war was....Southern jealousy of Northern indoor plumbing! Recieved an A by the way...lots of good reasons.
    Don't worry zombies are looking for brains, you're safe...

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Atlanta GA area
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    Good thoughts there Scrog... and yeah folks need to disagree... better to learn than to play politics.

    I would differ about the cause of the war... many a historical reference I studied in older books suggested Abraham Linclon's #1 goal was to keep the nation together... he literally ignored the founding documents (in the Declaration it is stated the people can dissolve govt and form a new one).

    We do agree that hollywood is not about historical accuracy... It is a shame folks learn more history on the silver screen than in school... says a lot about our education system IMO.

    I would suggest this: While we have this image of African descent folks being literally 'owned' and being treated like bought mules during the Plantation days... this was the exception rather than the rule. Many a Plantation owner, while they may have acquired their labor this way, treated them quite well. They provided for them, gave them necessities of life, treated them like relatives (with boundaries of course)... I have a hard time believing those Africans would have been better off in mud huts in Africa foraging for food with no medical support other than the witch-doctor. And lets not forget tribal conditions in Africa... lots of wars and pillage by one's 'brothers' in the tribe down the way.
    OTOH: Take a look at the factories in the North during the Industrial revolution... Working conditions were HORRIBLE, children were forced to work, and injuries/deaths were common.

    Now tell me which life would be better: A benevolent Plantation owner who more or less took care of you... or a dirty, cold (or hot) factory where it was not if but when you got hurt or killed...

    Bet I get flamed for this one also... <grin>
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

  3. #16
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    Feb 2007
    Location
    Helena, Montana
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    GA, I would have to disagree based on what I have read on the subject. If the majority of the plantations had been as you described, the "underground railroad" would not have been anywhere near as active as it was. I would concur that there were "good" or perhaps more humane plantation owners as there were down right A$$ plantation owners.

    Now to take it one step further. Regardless if their "life was better" they were not given the choice if they wanted to stay in Africa.
    Don't worry zombies are looking for brains, you're safe...

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
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    Altmar, New York, United States
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdblack View Post
    Figures. Lincoln never did well in theaters.

    Sent from my ERIS using Tapatalk 2
    D:

  5. #18
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    Sep 2005
    Location
    Atlanta GA area
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    Quote Originally Posted by ControlsInMT View Post
    GA, I would have to disagree based on what I have read on the subject. If the majority of the plantations had been as you described, the "underground railroad" would not have been anywhere near as active as it was. I would concur that there were "good" or perhaps more humane plantation owners as there were down right A$$ plantation owners.

    Now to take it one step further. Regardless if their "life was better" they were not given the choice if they wanted to stay in Africa.
    Probably gonna have to agree to disagree on the plantation owners...

    The freedom issue is one worthy of debate though: We in this country are not given lots of choices now-a-days... wonder how different that would have been then?

    BTW: I read more than one place; In Africa, folks from Tribe A would raid Tribe B and kidnap folks for the slave trade... then sell them to the shippers. So it was the 'brothers' who sent the slaves to America... not the bad white folks. Not much different than the 'brothers' who sell drugs and destroy their kinfolks lives today.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Helena, Montana
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    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    Probably gonna have to agree to disagree on the plantation owners...

    The freedom issue is one worthy of debate though: We in this country are not given lots of choices now-a-days... wonder how different that would have been then?

    BTW: I read more than one place; In Africa, folks from Tribe A would raid Tribe B and kidnap folks for the slave trade... then sell them to the shippers. So it was the 'brothers' who sent the slaves to America... not the bad white folks. Not much different than the 'brothers' who sell drugs and destroy their kinfolks lives today.
    Don't worry zombies are looking for brains, you're safe...

  7. #20
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Rochester, NY, USA
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    14,509
    ask any Pharaoh, SLAVERY GOT DONE,
    I only drink a little, but when I do
    I turn into another person and THAT person drinks a lot

  8. #21
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    Sep 2007
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    Boise, ID
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    4,398
    Quote Originally Posted by ControlsInMT View Post
    As a junior in high school, my final essay answer for the real cause of the civil war was....Southern jealousy of Northern indoor plumbing! Recieved an A by the way...lots of good reasons.

    And here I thought it was only but a few years ago that Helena finally got indoor plumbing, live and learn.
    If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what will never be. (Thomas Jefferson 1816)

  9. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
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    Keokuk, IA
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    5,520
    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    Now tell me which life would be better: A benevolent Plantation owner who more or less took care of you... or a dirty, cold (or hot) factory where it was not if but when you got hurt or killed...

    Bet I get flamed for this one also... <grin>
    But come on... you're "free" at that factory in the north.

    We don't have slaves or hazardous factory labor anymore. We just give those at the lowest social rung a welfare checks and/or SS check and food stamps.

  10. #23
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Richmond, VA
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    Quote Originally Posted by motoguy128 View Post
    But come on... you're "free" at that factory in the north.

    We don't have slaves or hazardous factory labor anymore. We just give those at the lowest social rung a welfare checks and/or SS check and food stamps.
    No we just buy our clothes at places that uses cheap labor from bangladesh and no working fire doors.

  11. #24
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    Sep 2005
    Location
    Atlanta GA area
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    Quote Originally Posted by motoguy128 View Post
    But come on... you're "free" at that factory in the north.

    We don't have slaves or hazardous factory labor anymore. We just give those at the lowest social rung a welfare checks and/or SS check and food stamps.
    Yeah, you and I PAY for this... while they lazy around and play.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

  12. #25
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    Sep 2005
    Location
    Atlanta GA area
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    Quote Originally Posted by motoguy128 View Post
    But come on... you're "free" at that factory in the north.

    We don't have slaves or hazardous factory labor anymore. We just give those at the lowest social rung a welfare checks and/or SS check and food stamps.
    Were they really free? What would have happened if they refused to work? They would have starved in the cold... as there were NO safety nets back then.

    BTW: Think it cannot happen that way again... think again. Govts DO GO BROKE... do some historical research.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

  13. #26
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    St. Louis
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdblack View Post
    Figures. Lincoln never did well in theaters.

    Sent from my ERIS using Tapatalk 2
    LOL!

    How was the play otherwise, Mrs. Lincoln.

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