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  1. #1
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    Jan 2008
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    Data Center Critical Cooling

    Happy Thanksgiving Everyone!
    I maintain/service 4 different data centers in Las Vegas. 3 of the sites have Liebert systems or Data Aire systems and the other has (2) 20ton Trane split heat pumps.
    I have gave a quote for 2 new Liebert systems and due to this particular building there is no way the budget will allow for Lieberts.
    My question is does anyone know of any other systems that you may have used in a data center that would work? I was told my budget would have to be under a 100K that would be installed. I will add a Nortec humidifier later when budget will allow. Does not need to be a heat pump. I know I can use a carrier with a semi-hermetic with unloaders. Is there any other units I'm not thinking of? Thanks for your time.

  2. #2
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    You won't be using any semi Hermetics from Carrier . You could use a Digital scroll compressor like Liebert uses.

  3. #3
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  4. #4
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    Feb 2010
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    You could do like some of the resi guys and fill it up with mini splits

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Las Vegas, NV
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    Thanks Valdelocc.
    Dallas Duster why no semi hermetic?
    Liebert uses both Digital Scrolls and Carlyle Semi's w/unloaders. 2 of my sites are all lieberts, 1 is a mixture of Lieberts and Data Aires.
    Let me explain one thing.... The 3 sites that have the correct equipment are for the sub leasing of server sites = income to company therefore have a high budget the 4th site is for internal usage which basically it is the black sheep of the 4 sites and since it comes out of profit the budget is much smaller

  6. #6
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    To my knowledge Carrier no longer offers semi hermetic compressors with and equipment being made now. Liebert still may use them but I believe if they do they use R-407C refrigerant with them.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dallas Duster View Post
    To my knowledge Carrier no longer offers semi hermetic compressors with and equipment being made now. Liebert still may use them but I believe if they do they use R-407C refrigerant with them.
    Last I heard 407c is out, Emerson had way too many warranty claims due to clogged LLD and expansion valves, the new line is all 410a. The Carlyle 06d are still available,you can buy them everywhere, they went with scroll cause Emerson makes them and they are cheaper.

  8. #8
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    Jan 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by valdelocc View Post
    Last I heard 407c is out, Emerson had way too many warranty claims due to clogged LLD and expansion valves, the new line is all 410a. The Carlyle 06d are still available,you can buy them everywhere, they went with scroll cause Emerson makes them and they are cheaper.
    We just installed 2 of the new Lieberts with the carlyles running 407c. I will have to check with my rep, I was told only 407c is being used. I put one in in August and another in October, they build to spec, so this must be within last month or two?!

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by IFRZAIR View Post
    We just installed 2 of the new Lieberts with the carlyles running 407c. I will have to check with my rep, I was told only 407c is being used. I put one in in August and another in October, they build to spec, so this must be within last month or two?!
    My info came from a tech that works doing start up and warranty claims for the manufacturer. it makes sense to use a near-azeotropic 410a blend versus a piss poor zeotropic mixture with a huge glide AKA 407c.

  10. #10
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    Jan 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by valdelocc View Post
    My info came from a tech that works doing start up and warranty claims for the manufacturer. it makes sense to use a near-azeotropic 410a blend versus a piss poor zeotropic mixture with a huge glide AKA 407c.
    I agree! We have had no trouble with ours, but then again I do my commissioning above Liebert recommendations. There are so many hack companies that install these units and when I go to commission them for warranty validation I have to damn near start from scratch. No one knows how to pipe these days, and forget about vacume pumps they believe purging is fine.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
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    Quote Originally Posted by valdelocc View Post
    Last I heard 407c is out, Emerson had way too many warranty claims due to clogged LLD and expansion valves, the new line is all 410a. The Carlyle 06d are still available,you can buy them everywhere, they went with scroll cause Emerson makes them and they are cheaper.
    Really? If the system is installed and started as per Liebert specs. this does not happen. I have 2 challenger, 1 DS, and a XDC system, all running 407c. The oldest system is 3 years and the newest one is 11 months old. I know the new Liebert systems comming out are using digital scrolls due to the fact Emerson makes them. 407c is really close to acting like R-22, not sure why you said in a later post that its a piss poor referigerant. I bet you that if I was a customer and called Liebert and said I need ten 30 ton iCom units with 407c referigerant, they would say no problem. It's all about the way the job is engineered and what the customer is willing to spend.
    I have done so much with so little for so long, that now I can do almost anything with nothing at all.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoColts View Post
    Really? If the system is installed and started as per Liebert specs. this does not happen. I have 2 challenger, 1 DS, and a XDC system, all running 407c. The oldest system is 3 years and the newest one is 11 months old. I know the new Liebert systems comming out are using digital scrolls due to the fact Emerson makes them. 407c is really close to acting like R-22, not sure why you said in a later post that its a piss poor referigerant. I bet you that if I was a customer and called Liebert and said I need ten 30 ton iCom units with 407c referigerant, they would say no problem. It's all about the way the job is engineered and what the customer is willing to spend.
    Like I said before a fellow tech that works for a local Liebert rep fed me the info.
    And yes, 407c is an interim blend,has a huge glide and its not going to become the r-22 replacement, 410a has greater capacity, minimum glide and the price has dropped to less than 1/2 the cost of 407c. JMO
    History repeats itself, we been through this before some years ago when r-12 got the boot.

  13. #13
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    Feb 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by valdelocc View Post
    Like I said before a fellow tech that works for a local Liebert rep fed me the info.
    And yes, 407c is an interim blend,has a huge glide and its not going to become the r-22 replacement, 410a has greater capacity, minimum glide and the price has dropped to less than 1/2 the cost of 407c. JMO
    History repeats itself, we been through this before some years ago when r-12 got the boot.
    I also know some factory techs, one I speak to quite often (about fishing of course), he has had more problems with the 410a systems. I agree that a replacement for r12 has never been found, 134a is an energy hog. I am still not grasping why a 3.5 degree temp glide is bad. I agree that 410a has a .3 degree temp glide which is better when it comes to leaks. But IMO thats about all thats better. 407c is very close to r22 on the PT charts, which means one set of guages with 2 sets of hoses. We could get on our soap boxes all night long here, I like working with 407c, the data centers I maintain are large and most of the time money is no object, because its pennys on the dollar compaired to what they will loose if there servers go down. Im old skool here, i loved r12 and r22, 410a is a new beast thats going to make a go of it but its not going to replace r22 in the long run. (*gets of the soap box now)
    I have done so much with so little for so long, that now I can do almost anything with nothing at all.

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