View Poll Results: Which SEER - 13 or 16?

Voters
16. You may not vote on this poll
  • 13 SEER

    7 43.75%
  • 16 SEER

    9 56.25%
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Results 1 to 13 of 28
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    12

    Confused 13 SEER vs. 16 SEER

    Hi;

    We are building a new residence in Long Island New York. We intend to use RHEEM for product, Split System with Hot Water Coil for heating.

    To say the least we have heard so many opinion about SEER selection that we thought we throw it out here and get some feedback from the best of the best!

    We are now trying to make decide between two proposals (from the same HVAC contractor):

    1. Proposal 1: 16 SEER Rheem Dual-Stage, Condensor RARL-JEZ series with Rheem Air Handler RHPNHM-JC series
    2. Proposal 2: 13 SEER Rheem Condensor RANL-JAZ series with Rheem Air Handler RHSLHM-AA series

    And here is the issue: the 16 Seer costs almost 60% more than the 13 Seer.

    QUESTION: Assuming we intend to keep the house for the long term, what would be the recommendation based on all the factors.

    Alternative suggestions will be more than welcomed!! - THANK YOU!!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Greenwood Indiana (Indianapolis)
    Posts
    420
    The 16 seer unit is 2 stage so it will De-humidify 15% better. It takes a special indoor unit, so that is some of the costs. It has a 10 year no lemons warranty on the compressor. It is super quiet and has every safety component you can possibly have. Also it is approx. 15% more efficient.
    As iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another Proverbs 27:17 NIV84

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Charleston, SC
    Posts
    930

    Numbers game

    As I'm sure you have already heard, a lot of things affect SEER ratings and the actual "delivered efficiency". At the end of the discussion the only thing that really matters is how long will it take to pay back the higher cost and does it make sence. Here is a link to help you calculate: http://www.airinnovationsllc.com/calculator.php

    Use your numbers to get an estimated savings, then divide cost difference by annual savings. If the answer is less than 7-10 years and you will be in the house that long, I'd do the 16.
    "Customer Service" is not a department, it's an attitude!
    ???

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    south louisiana
    Posts
    3,327
    16 SEER
    The cure of the part should not be attempted without the cure of the whole. ~Plato

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN, USA
    Posts
    34,608
    How about neither! A LOT more economical option is a 14 SEER. You take the RANL outdoor unit and put it with a high efficiency air handler and usually come up with 14. For not a lot more than 13. The RHLL fixed speed or RHKL variable speed use enough less juice to boost the SEER. Now I know the 2 stage lovers will squack dehumidification. Well, many 2 stage units are 75-80% on low so not much diff or not much longer run times. Either RHLL or RHKL can use on demand dehumidifcation with the right stat.

    Odds are if you do spring for the 16 SEER RARL, you won't recover the extra you spend on it in electric bill savings. My cousin faced this question as his HVAC sub on his new house pushed 16 SEER. I pointed out that in his northern climate, the A/C will likely be in the grave before he even broke even. He went with a 13 boosted to 14 by his blower.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Maple Grove, MN
    Posts
    1,431
    I'm curious what the deal is with the hot water coil in the unit, as opposed to just a standard furnace. Will you have a boiler feeding in-floor heat or something? Also, if you have reasonable electric rates, it might be worth it to check into a heat pump instead of just standard A/C. They will usually be cheaper to operate than other types of heat during mild weather.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    south louisiana
    Posts
    3,327
    squack squack ..squack
    sorry BaldLoonie...couldn't resist!
    sound like your suggestion could be an economical compromise.
    The cure of the part should not be attempted without the cure of the whole. ~Plato

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    12
    Quote Originally Posted by ammoniadog View Post
    I'm curious what the deal is with the hot water coil in the unit, as opposed to just a standard furnace. Will you have a boiler feeding in-floor heat or something? Also, if you have reasonable electric rates, it might be worth it to check into a heat pump instead of just standard A/C. They will usually be cheaper to operate than other types of heat during mild weather.
    Heating with hot water coil brings in humidification and, therefore, a more comfortable heat while a standard furnace is "dry" heat and not very comfortable.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN, USA
    Posts
    34,608
    WRONG

    A house is dry due to cold outside air leaking in and being heated by whatever source you have. 140 degree air from a hot water coil is 140 degree air, no different from air from a gas or electric furnace.

    Reduce the infiltration and you increase RH%.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    SW Wisconsin
    Posts
    5,033
    I tend to agree with Baldloonie; the 14-SEER is a good option even in Goodman condensers.

    What you want is a Copeland Scroll compressor & a TXV metering device.

    Then it all depends on how energy efficient your home is; plus how efficient the duct system & air flow system are...

    Actual savings &, also the actual SEER Rating performance depends on many factors other than a mere mfg'ers SEER Rating...the higher the SEER Rating the more perfect all the other 'system-factors' have to be, or it won't deliver near its SEER Rating.

    You never have the perfect mfg'ers LAB conditions in the field...

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Moore, Oklahoma, United States
    Posts
    4,506
    +1 for a 14 seer solution.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    SW FL
    Posts
    6,429
    14 SEER Heat Pump should be considered.

    If you use $$$ for The deciding factor, you likely won't be upgrading too a SEER 16 an A/C unit.
    Pay back period based on 1,100 operating hours in the summer even at $0.18 / kW is going to be a VERY Long time (> 15 years?)


    http://www.hvacopcost.com/results.asp

    SEER 14 vs. 13 A/C with < ~20% initial cost increase might be < 9 year payback.
    Designer Dan
    It's Not Rocket Science, But It is SCIENCE with "Some Art". ___ ___ K EEP I T S IMPLE & S INCERE

    Define the Building Envelope and Perform a Detailed Load Calc: It's ALL About Windows and Make-up Air Requirements. Know Your Equipment Capabilities

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Maple Grove, MN
    Posts
    1,431
    Quote Originally Posted by esabet View Post
    Heating with hot water coil brings in humidification and, therefore, a more comfortable heat while a standard furnace is "dry" heat and not very comfortable.
    As BaldLoonie says, a hot water coil inside of the air handler won't do anything to increase humidity, unless it has a pinhole leak that sprays hot water into the ductwork. When people talk about hot water heat being more comfortable, they are talking about radiators or base board heating as opposed to forced air heating. It is the difference between radiation heat vs. convection heat. Forced air hydronic will feel just like forced air gas heat.

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