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  1. #66
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    Jun 2001
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    3,910
    Quote Originally Posted by the mojo View Post
    http://news.cnet.com/8301-17852_3-57...g-over-phones/

    Hurry hurry hurry step right up and get a super bargain for the phone that will change your life forever.
    Wow. That looked like a bunch of starving Ethiopians fighting over bags of US rice. Pity.
    Governments don't tax to get the money they need, governments will always find a need for the money they get. Ronald Wilson Reagon

    Born Again KA

  2. #67
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
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    TEXAS
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    806
    Quote Originally Posted by bb View Post
    Wow. That looked like a bunch of starving Ethiopians fighting over bags of US rice. Pity.
    Pretty sad. Probably a preview of what our entitlement society would look like if/when the freebies stop.
    Avatar is a tribute to my Great Grandfather, Andrew Stewart. This pin was one of his advertisements for his heating and plumbing business. I never knew him but must of inherited his love of things mechanical since I am the only blue collar worker in the family

  3. #68
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    New Mexico
    Posts
    5,459
    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    I certainly don't want to hurt anyone's feelings or imply that anyone is not very comprehending of what they read....but....I did quote who missed what point in the post that you quoted.....I'm just saying....

    And for the record, labor is just being hired. When you take a job, it's not like the Army....it's a job, not an adventure. When I go to work for someone, I tell them what I want out of the job and they tell me what they want out of me. If we both agree on what we both want, I do my job and they give me a paycheck and the benefits agreed on. Why are some workers not capable of working without having some Socialist organization having to protect them like our mother's felt they had to do when we were children?
    I really don't mind being on the other side of the fence as far as our world view.
    A line from a Ry Cooder tune says "Time is all you got". A person takes a job and trades their time. A very valuable asset. While owners invest their time and money in a venture a person selling their labor also makes an investment.
    Owners compete for market share as does labor. Labor should be very involved in the conditions they agree to. These conditions have evolved over time to where the 19th century barons wouldn't recognise.
    Unions were once part of political realities that were happening around the world. Today they manage labor similar to how corporates manage production. Unions provide a product.
    Your comparison of Unions to protectors like mothers is not even close to reality. Workers need to understand their rightful inheritance to a piece of the pie. They, like owners, are also investors. Workers organize out of necessity. Getting a fair shake from some corporates is like pulling teeth.
    BTW, I've had a lot of jobs. Early on I worked for companies that told me to do things that were wrong, dangerious, and stupid. Like many there was few options other then walking. A person alone has a very small voice unless they have arrived at some position.
    Tracers work both ways.

  4. #69
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    New Mexico
    Posts
    5,459
    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    Problem is... ANY time time govt messes with the market place... the end result is WORSE than it was before.
    Sure what we have today is not ideal... however let the govt at it and it will be screwed up WAAAY worse... and we will not be allowed to fix it.

    The market place is not always the BEST solution... however it is the best one we can get.
    Come on! If by now you don't believe tariffs are necessary intervention your ether hopeless or believe what the corporates are selling on Fox. It's well past time Americans started drinking from another well. All their knowledge has become so predictable it's like living in an echo chamber. Governments around the world enforce tariffs, manipulate currency values, and unload their products below costs. It's time for intervention in our trade practises. Those that wrongly say that nobody wins a trade war doesn't know history. North America has buying power. That's a war that's winnable.
    Tracers work both ways.

  5. #70
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Central Florida
    Posts
    880
    Quote Originally Posted by hvacker View Post
    I really don't mind being on the other side of the fence as far as our world view.
    A line from a Ry Cooder tune says "Time is all you got". A person takes a job and trades their time. A very valuable asset. While owners invest their time and money in a venture a person selling their labor also makes an investment.
    Owners compete for market share as does labor. Labor should be very involved in the conditions they agree to. These conditions have evolved over time to where the 19th century barons wouldn't recognise.
    Unions were once part of political realities that were happening around the world. Today they manage labor similar to how corporates manage production. Unions provide a product.
    Your comparison of Unions to protectors like mothers is not even close to reality. Workers need to understand their rightful inheritance to a piece of the pie. They, like owners, are also investors. Workers organize out of necessity. Getting a fair shake from some corporates is like pulling teeth.
    BTW, I've had a lot of jobs. Early on I worked for companies that told me to do things that were wrong, dangerious, and stupid. Like many there was few options other then walking. A person alone has a very small voice unless they have arrived at some position.

    I like that you see that their are no real differences between a union and a corporation but don't understand why you don't see that they are exactly like a corporation, corrupt and out for their own gain, and willing to sell their workers out in order to profit the union bosses. Unions are just as bad as the corporations they are supposed to be standing up for.

  6. #71
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Posts
    68,923
    Quote Originally Posted by hvacker View Post
    I really don't mind being on the other side of the fence as far as our world view.
    A line from a Ry Cooder tune says "Time is all you got". A person takes a job and trades their time. A very valuable asset. While owners invest their time and money in a venture a person selling their labor also makes an investment.
    Owners compete for market share as does labor. Labor should be very involved in the conditions they agree to. These conditions have evolved over time to where the 19th century barons wouldn't recognise.
    Unions were once part of political realities that were happening around the world. Today they manage labor similar to how corporates manage production. Unions provide a product.
    Your comparison of Unions to protectors like mothers is not even close to reality. Workers need to understand their rightful inheritance to a piece of the pie. They, like owners, are also investors. Workers organize out of necessity. Getting a fair shake from some corporates is like pulling teeth.
    BTW, I've had a lot of jobs. Early on I worked for companies that told me to do things that were wrong, dangerious, and stupid. Like many there was few options other then walking. A person alone has a very small voice unless they have arrived at some position.
    A companies labor cannot and should not be seperate from the company...period. A company that does not have full control of it's labor cannot profit and grow because labor is a main factor in company operations. Labor must be completely and utterly commited to the company, not to some Socialist organization that costs the company more money to operate and dictates the rules of engagement of the labor force for the company.

    This is exactly why organized labor has declined so greatly in the private sector and has increased so much in the public sector. Labor unions are Socialist by design and therefore are more attractive to the Socialist minded government employee who does not have to strive for company profits making.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  7. #72
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    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
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    68,923
    Quote Originally Posted by hvacker View Post
    Come on! If by now you don't believe tariffs are necessary intervention your ether hopeless or believe what the corporates are selling on Fox. It's well past time Americans started drinking from another well. All their knowledge has become so predictable it's like living in an echo chamber. Governments around the world enforce tariffs, manipulate currency values, and unload their products below costs. It's time for intervention in our trade practises. Those that wrongly say that nobody wins a trade war doesn't know history. North America has buying power. That's a war that's winnable.
    Tariffs are neccesary in order to allow the high cost of goods due to organized labor to compete on the global market. What tariffs do is to inflate the cost of goods for Americans in order to subsidize labor union costs. What this boils down to is that Americans have to pay more for products in order for government to protect organized labor costs. Just check out why Americans pay on average 3 times as much for sugar than Europeans and Asians pay for sugar.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  8. #73
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Central Florida
    Posts
    880
    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    A companies labor cannot and should not be seperate from the company...period. A company that does not have full control of it's labor cannot profit and grow because labor is a main factor in company operations. Labor must be completely and utterly commited to the company, not to some Socialist organization that costs the company more money to operate and dictates the rules of engagement of the labor force for the company.

    This is exactly why organized labor has declined so greatly in the private sector and has increased so much in the public sector. Labor unions are Socialist by design and therefore are more attractive to the Socialist minded government employee who does not have to strive for company profits making.

    You make a company sound like a country. Its not its an orginization out for its own good. There is no difference between a company and a union. Neither one is better or worse then the other. I'm so sick of hearing about socialists by one side and capitalists by the other. Stop feeding into this crap. There are good companies, there are bad companies. There are good unions and bad unions. Labor should be comitted to themselves, because thats whom the people at the top of the company, and the people at the top of the union is out for, and thinking others have your best interests at heart is the fastest way to find yourself at the bottom.

  9. #74
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Central Florida
    Posts
    880
    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    Tariffs are neccesary in order to allow the high cost of goods due to organized labor to compete on the global market. What tariffs do is to inflate the cost of goods for Americans in order to subsidize labor union costs. What this boils down to is that Americans have to pay more for products in order for government to protect organized labor costs. Just check out why Americans pay on average 3 times as much for sugar than Europeans and Asians pay for sugar.
    Tariffs are necessary because the value of the dollar is less in the united states then around the world. It actually has nothing to do with the costs of Labor. That's just an excuse to hide what has really happened to our economy.

  10. #75
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    S.C.
    Posts
    1,359
    Quote Originally Posted by hvacker View Post
    I really don't mind being on the other side of the fence as far as our world view.
    A line from a Ry Cooder tune says "Time is all you got". A person takes a job and trades their time. A very valuable asset. While owners invest their time and money in a venture a person selling their labor also makes an investment.
    Owners compete for market share as does labor. Labor should be very involved in the conditions they agree to. These conditions have evolved over time to where the 19th century barons wouldn't recognise.
    Unions were once part of political realities that were happening around the world. Today they manage labor similar to how corporates manage production. Unions provide a product.
    Your comparison of Unions to protectors like mothers is not even close to reality. Workers need to understand their rightful inheritance to a piece of the pie. They, like owners, are also investors. Workers organize out of necessity. Getting a fair shake from some corporates is like pulling teeth.
    BTW, I've had a lot of jobs. Early on I worked for companies that told me to do things that were wrong, dangerious, and stupid. Like many there was few options other then walking. A person alone has a very small voice unless they have arrived at some position.

    Just totally How Wrong Perception of a "Job" can be.

    Unions Provide A Product? I've Never Seen A "Union" produce a Product. The Workers that Make The Product Belong To A/The Union.

    As An Employee, YOU DO NOT OWN The Company. You Work There. If you feel you are Not Being Paid Fairly, LEAVE and Don't Go Back.

    You were Told to Do Dangerous, Stupid Things. Hummm... Yea, I can believe that one. Ever Heard Of OSHA? Or the EPA?

    The Unions are going to Finish Killing the Industry Left In The Country (or forcing them to move out of the country).
    Yes, I know I Shouldn't But I Just Can't Help Myself...

  11. #76
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Atlanta GA area
    Posts
    20,856
    Quote Originally Posted by hvacker View Post
    Come on! If by now you don't believe tariffs are necessary intervention your ether hopeless or believe what the corporates are selling on Fox. It's well past time Americans started drinking from another well. All their knowledge has become so predictable it's like living in an echo chamber. Governments around the world enforce tariffs, manipulate currency values, and unload their products below costs. It's time for intervention in our trade practises. Those that wrongly say that nobody wins a trade war doesn't know history. North America has buying power. That's a war that's winnable.
    So we set up a bunch of tarriffs... to protect this or that... and it makes the recession turn into a depression.

    Might want to study economic history... If tarriffs had NOT been set up... the depression of the 1930's would have been shorter. Yes, I said SHORTER. When folks understand the pain is what heals the economy... we will be on the road to recovery. As long as folks think relieving pain (as in kick the 'lower spending' can down the road) is not necessary, the situation only gets worse.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

  12. #77
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Atlanta GA area
    Posts
    20,856
    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    Tariffs are neccesary in order to allow the high cost of goods due to organized labor to compete on the global market. What tariffs do is to inflate the cost of goods for Americans in order to subsidize labor union costs. What this boils down to is that Americans have to pay more for products in order for government to protect organized labor costs. Just check out why Americans pay on average 3 times as much for sugar than Europeans and Asians pay for sugar.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elfshadow View Post
    Tariffs are necessary because the value of the dollar is less in the united states then around the world. It actually has nothing to do with the costs of Labor. That's just an excuse to hide what has really happened to our economy.
    IMO both of you are right, yet both of you are wrong... there is one more factor to figure in: The fact the US$ is the reserve currency of the world.

    Having our currency the reserve currency gives us this advantage called 'hegemony'... in a nutshell it means the USA has a higher lifestyle at the expense of the rest of the world. And the rest of the world knows this and resents it... THIS is why the US military is sooo huge... it is not to protect the US citizen, it is to protect the US$.

    When folks understand this... they will understand why our govt makes all these decisions that are not related to common sense. In reality, our govt serves the master of the reserve currency, not the USA.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

  13. #78
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Atlanta GA area
    Posts
    20,856
    Quote Originally Posted by Home&Marine View Post
    Just totally How Wrong Perception of a "Job" can be.

    Unions Provide A Product? I've Never Seen A "Union" produce a Product. The Workers that Make The Product Belong To A/The Union.

    As An Employee, YOU DO NOT OWN The Company. You Work There. If you feel you are Not Being Paid Fairly, LEAVE and Don't Go Back.

    You were Told to Do Dangerous, Stupid Things. Hummm... Yea, I can believe that one. Ever Heard Of OSHA? Or the EPA?

    The Unions are going to Finish Killing the Industry Left In The Country (or forcing them to move out of the country).
    IMO Hostess is only the first of many situations that will teach the union worker they are NOT as much in control as they thought they were.

    Ahhh, the pendulum swings both ways... in good times the union gets big $$$ for their workers... in bad times the union gets greedy and skeweres their workers (see the 18,500 jobs lost at Hostess)... Yet teh union bosses ALWAYS stay rich... curious thing there.

    Folks really should study the history of unions... they would learn something (if they wanted to).
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

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