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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    winnipeg
    Posts
    1,330
    Lennox is the queitest I have ever heard....
    it was working.... played with it.... now its broke.... whats the going hourly rate for HVAC repair

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Over Here
    Posts
    1,105
    If you go with the Lennox model you posted earlier, it'll be quiet. On the installation end, for VS blowers, I prefer the Lennox's blower set-up configuration as opposed to Amana's. What outdoor models were you looking at?

    I don't have any real-world experience with the American Standard furnace you mentioned, so can't help you there.

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    The Quad-Cities area (midwest).
    Posts
    2,689
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike530 View Post
    I was looking at the smallest variable speed. The 60,000 btu input.
    Did the salesperson mention a 2-stage thermostat to make sure the furnace stays on low fire the majority of the time?

    Also, you said the furnace filter is under the furnace in a cavity? I'm not sure I can picture what you mean?

    Is the filter in the furnace or a filter grille? How many (and what size) are your return air grilles?

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Rochester NY
    Posts
    4,728
    35,000 worst case load.

    I'd recommend a 2 stage heat pump. Abandon combustion and associated headaches all together.
    Which makes more sense to you?
    CONSERVATION - turning your thermostat back and being uncomfortable. Maybe saving 5-10%
    ENERGY EFFICIENCY - leaving your thermostat where everyone is comfortable. Saving 30-70%

    DO THE NUMBERS! Step on a HOMESCALE.
    What is comfort? Well, it AIN'T just TEMPERATURE!

    Energy Obese? An audit is the next step - go to BPI.org, or RESNET, and find an auditor near you.

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    14
    We were offered the 3 ton lennox 14acx. But since the AC sits outside of our living room window, I would like to switch to a quieter one. I was thinking the lennox XC14.

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    14
    Quote Originally Posted by George2 View Post
    Did the salesperson mention a 2-stage thermostat to make sure the furnace stays on low fire the majority of the time?

    Also, you said the furnace filter is under the furnace in a cavity? I'm not sure I can picture what you mean?

    Is the filter in the furnace or a filter grille? How many (and what size) are your return air grilles?
    I requested the Honeywell Prestige from the salesman, that I believe is a two stage and lets us use a remote upstairs to control the temperature since the thermostat is downstairs. There is a filter grill right under the furnace. The furnace is in a upstairs hallway closet, and the filter is right below the closet door. It is sized 14X25 and we only have one.

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Over Here
    Posts
    1,105
    The XC14 is a quieter unit. It also allows for easier maintenance as the exterior grilles swing open like a door for cleaning. The 14ACX doesn't have this feature. It is Lennox's builder unit to compete with the rest of the other manufacturers.

    The 14 x 25 filter grille matched with a 3 ton system and VS blower will create another kind of noise... Velocity. Need to put some thought to increasing it for several reasons: Noise and filtration efficiency. I'd start with an opening or a combination of filtered openings with at least twice your exisitng grille's area.

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    The Quad-Cities area (midwest).
    Posts
    2,689
    Quote Originally Posted by tedkidd View Post
    35,000 worst case load.

    I'd recommend a 2 stage heat pump. Abandon combustion and associated headaches all together.
    We are in an area where we need gas back-up (H/P are not to practical). So I did not consider your option.............but it sounds like a great idea for No. CA.

    He could stage the electric heat for his back-up heat.
    Last edited by George2; 11-19-2012 at 07:56 AM. Reason: Added to the post

  9. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    The Quad-Cities area (midwest).
    Posts
    2,689
    Quote Originally Posted by thermojohn View Post
    The XC14 is a quieter unit. It also allows for easier maintenance as the exterior grilles swing open like a door for cleaning. The 14ACX doesn't have this feature. It is Lennox's builder unit to compete with the rest of the other manufacturers.

    The 14 x 25 filter grille matched with a 3 ton system and VS blower will create another kind of noise... Velocity. Need to put some thought to increasing it for several reasons: Noise and filtration efficiency. I'd start with an opening or a combination of filtered openings with at least twice your exisitng grille's area.
    Thermaljohn hit it on the head again. The 14"x25" filter grille is half the air your system needs. Now we are getting to the main problem.

    I would advice ditching the filter grille and enlarging the RA somehow (enlarge and/or add to).
    Then install a hi-eff. box filter (rack) under.

  10. #23
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Rochester NY
    Posts
    4,728
    Quote Originally Posted by George2 View Post
    We are in an area where we need gas back-up (H/P are not to practical). So I did not consider your option.............but it sounds like a great idea for No. CA.

    He could stage the electric heat for his back-up heat.
    Do you assume heat pumps are not practical as a matter of practice? You may be missing opportunity for yourself and your clients. My mother's 3 ton Infinity carries her 2300 sf home to 7f without breaking a sweat.

    Around here we have high meter fees, and I expect fixed costs to go up. I'm recommending people abandon gas meters whenever it makes sense, that saves $200 a year just in BILLING fees!

    Here, do the numbers: http://bit.ly/fuelbtucost

    To get fairly accurate numbers I assume:
    300-400% on the electric for an air source heat pump.
    500-600% for one of those new hi zoot inverter driven modulating ground source pumps.
    Drop 10-15% from rated efficiency on equipment that is grossly oversized.
    Which makes more sense to you?
    CONSERVATION - turning your thermostat back and being uncomfortable. Maybe saving 5-10%
    ENERGY EFFICIENCY - leaving your thermostat where everyone is comfortable. Saving 30-70%

    DO THE NUMBERS! Step on a HOMESCALE.
    What is comfort? Well, it AIN'T just TEMPERATURE!

    Energy Obese? An audit is the next step - go to BPI.org, or RESNET, and find an auditor near you.

  11. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    The Quad-Cities area (midwest).
    Posts
    2,689
    Quote Originally Posted by tedkidd View Post
    Do you assume heat pumps are not practical as a matter of practice? You may be missing opportunity for yourself and your clients. My mother's 3 ton Infinity carries her 2300 sf home to 7f without breaking a sweat.

    Around here we have high meter fees, and I expect fixed costs to go up. I'm recommending people abandon gas meters whenever it makes sense, that saves $200 a year just in BILLING fees!

    Here, do the numbers: http://bit.ly/fuelbtucost

    To get fairly accurate numbers I assume:
    300-400% on the electric for an air source heat pump.
    500-600% for one of those new hi zoot inverter driven modulating ground source pumps.
    Drop 10-15% from rated efficiency on equipment that is grossly oversized.
    Are you talking about (at your mother's home) a Carrier Greenspeed? I'm out of the business now, but I (and others here) was taught to have the H/P kick off at 30-32 degrees.

    Otherwise, we were told, the H/Ps were not that efficient below that point and to let the gas heat take over.

    H/P in this area have never been pushed hard by any of the HVAC places. I understand that the new Carrier Greenspeed is a sweetheart of a machine, but very pricey.

  12. #25
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Rochester NY
    Posts
    4,728
    No, her's went in in 2010, before Greenspeed.

    I'm still getting my head around heat pump operation wrt defrost, which seems the barrier to efficient operation. I wish I owned one, then I could really dig in.

    I think there may be an efficiency jump below freezing as defrost is required less, but I'm not sure how that works, and am pretty sure that only applies to high end equipment.

    Gas is very cheap, so if the furnace sees enough load to deliver even comfort, there is probably no point to continuing to use the heat pump.

    But even with low end units Heat Pumps make a tremendous amount of sense. If you size to cooling load you have a very low low heat stage, which will provide mind blowing evenness and comfort to people with/ or used to only single stage furnaces. I did this in a mobile home (no multi-stage MH rated furnaces) with GREAT success.

    That said, these high end pumps are very cheap to operate too. So if on Propane or Oil, shut them off when register temps start to get uncomfortable.

    I have never sold straight AC. I'm not saying I wouldn't, but I doubt it will ever be a recommendation. It would have to be insisted upon by the client.
    Which makes more sense to you?
    CONSERVATION - turning your thermostat back and being uncomfortable. Maybe saving 5-10%
    ENERGY EFFICIENCY - leaving your thermostat where everyone is comfortable. Saving 30-70%

    DO THE NUMBERS! Step on a HOMESCALE.
    What is comfort? Well, it AIN'T just TEMPERATURE!

    Energy Obese? An audit is the next step - go to BPI.org, or RESNET, and find an auditor near you.

  13. #26
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    south louisiana
    Posts
    3,183
    but you also have to think of the customer's comfort.
    if a homeowner is used to the higher temp of heat from gas furnace..
    heat pump heat is much cooler.
    I've found this to be a deciding factor in homes for older people and folks
    who don't like cold.

    I never recommend a/c & electric strip heat. if all electric..its heat pump.
    BUT if the homeowner has ng..high efficiency a/c paired with two stage heating is
    a good investment.
    the thing that decides my clients on higher efficiency furnaces is the two stage
    heat. a gentle warm heat maintianed for comfort rather than single stage where
    house is chilly before blast of hot heat. two stage furnaces are much better comfort
    wise than single stage. with these higher efficiency furnaces..they are self condensing, no need for
    combustion air.
    and my clients are in the south..where temps aren't as severe and long lasting as northern states.
    The cure of the part should not be attempted without the cure of the whole. ~Plato

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