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  1. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by hvacker View Post
    Many businesses have come to understand that Americans are willing to work for less. Sometimes much less. With threats of closing the doors, going to China, dropping bennies, workers are less secure than I can remember. Corporates can shut down and the execs still walk with money. Many CEO's don't care all that much as they haven't been involved with the company all that long anyway.

    Some mentioned that the gov has taken up many of workers needs like min wage and safety. That wasn't always the case. Unions still negotiate wages and bennies. arbitration, training. Many who have nothing good to say about Unions speak from ignorance having never been a member or live where Unions are non-existent. All they know has been been manipulated by corporate money. The Twinkie CEO on TV was all about blaming Unions even though they continued to produce products that had declining revenues. A lot of people don't eat that stuff anymore. Most companies might have considered offering other products. The blame should rest solely on those that make the decisions about products, marketing , and shackling the doors.
    I think the corporate was looking for an excuse to close a failing business because of failed management.
    Im with you on that..
    Gotta have the right tool for the job!

    Where is all the stuff MADE IN THE USA?

    "Thats what we do Troy. Incredible, Invisible, Imbelivable things. We are an Unseen, Unknown, Unvincible fraternity of craftsman.."

  2. #28
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    May 2000
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    Rochester, NY, USA
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    Quote Originally Posted by hvacker View Post
    Many businesses have come to understand that Americans are willing to work for less. Sometimes much less. With threats of closing the doors, going to China, dropping bennies, workers are less secure than I can remember. Corporates can shut down and the execs still walk with money. Many CEO's don't care all that much as they haven't been involved with the company all that long anyway.

    Some mentioned that the gov has taken up many of workers needs like min wage and safety. That wasn't always the case. Unions still negotiate wages and bennies. arbitration, training. Many who have nothing good to say about Unions speak from ignorance having never been a member or live where Unions are non-existent. All they know has been been manipulated by corporate money. The Twinkie CEO on TV was all about blaming Unions even though they continued to produce products that had declining revenues. A lot of people don't eat that stuff anymore. Most companies might have considered offering other products. The blame should rest solely on those that make the decisions about products, marketing , and shackling the doors.
    I think the corporate was looking for an excuse to close a failing business because of failed management.
    I was in a union back in '74, made decent money. But the business was obviously failing. The boss/owner did a hellofa job keeping the doors open for an extra year and barely broke even. The Union decided they wanted a raise or they would strike. The owner BEGGED us not to strike and he would make up for it in another year.

    at the strike meeting me and another guy said we should give the guy a break and hold off for ONE YEAR. The Union boss thought the owner was bluffing. We told the Union guy that if we strike we will be out of business within a month.

    They voted to strike and a month later we were unemployed.

    UNIONS are not your friend. They are a malignant cancer to business and they are in business for themselves
    I only drink a little, but when I do
    I turn into another person and THAT person drinks a lot

  3. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmac00 View Post
    I was in a union back in '74, made decent money. But the business was obviously failing. The boss/owner did a hellofa job keeping the doors open for an extra year and barely broke even. The Union decided they wanted a raise or they would strike. The owner BEGGED us not to strike and he would make up for it in another year.

    at the strike meeting me and another guy said we should give the guy a break and hold off for ONE YEAR. The Union boss thought the owner was bluffing. We told the Union guy that if we strike we will be out of business within a month.

    They voted to strike and a month later we were unemployed.

    UNIONS are not your friend. They are a malignant cancer to business and they are in business for themselves

    I can remember when some Locals had an adversity relationship with the contractors. You said your experience was in 1974. That's nearly forty years ago. That was the same year I joined the SMW. The changes between contractors and the union members are huge in comparison. May times today if the contractor wanted to keep working he would be offered an interim agreement and his guys wouldn't have to join the strike.
    I haven't heard the word strike during negotiations for 30 years. Understand, relationships change. Some locals might still be stuck in the 70's but not most. We still provide by far the best training in the industry, licensed, drug tested, and ready to work.
    Contractors aren't forced to be signatory to a union, they chose to do so because it benefits them.
    Maybe you should have stuck it out in the Local and ran against the Union guy in the next election. Like our politicans, it's not uncommon to have poor leadership.
    "What Fools these mortals be"....Puck

  4. #30
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    Jan 2001
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    8,237
    Yes, Unions are going to rip this country apart...... Aint nobody to stop them.... Even the GORP.... cause....

    The GORP is dead....

    Just in case anyone is confused.... GORP = Grand Old Republican Party. I renamed the GOP to GORP cause I think GORP sounds better and its easier for me to say.
    YOU SHALL REAP WHAT YOU HAVE _______ SOWN

  5. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by hvacker View Post
    I can remember when some Locals had an adversity relationship with the contractors. You said your experience was in 1974. That's nearly forty years ago. That was the same year I joined the SMW. The changes between contractors and the union members are huge in comparison. May times today if the contractor wanted to keep working he would be offered an interim agreement and his guys wouldn't have to join the strike.
    I haven't heard the word strike during negotiations for 30 years. Understand, relationships change. Some locals might still be stuck in the 70's but not most. We still provide by far the best training in the industry, licensed, drug tested, and ready to work.
    Contractors aren't forced to be signatory to a union, they chose to do so because it benefits them.
    Maybe you should have stuck it out in the Local and ran against the Union guy in the next election. Like our politicans, it's not uncommon to have poor leadership.
    what about the unions double standard? One of the builders I use to work for was a Union VP. he built homes on the side. He REFUSED to hire union people because............there labor rates were to high


    I have run into electricians doing side work, but if that same union guy sees a non-union electrician on "his" job the SHTF and there is all kinds of yelling and screaming.

    I know members of the plumbers union that told me the unions are going to start "seeding" medium size plumbing shops. They are going to get a Union guy hired by a private contractor and see if that guy can turn the employees to the union. All the while getting paid by the union and the private contractor.

    Unions are NOT your friend. They are devious and malicious and there only goal is more dues and control
    I only drink a little, but when I do
    I turn into another person and THAT person drinks a lot

  6. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2sac View Post
    Back to the OP you can blame the union or you can blame the higher ups. Don't matter one way or another. They all had something to do with the success and failure of the business. This goes for both you're examples. There is greed on all levels. Let the market dictate the outcome.
    Agree with both statements!
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

  7. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Space Racer View Post
    I hate it for the 13,900 laid off employees who weren't members of the bakers union. They lost their jobs when the 5000 bakers union employees refused to take an 8% pay cut, even though the teamsters union had already agreed to a similar cut for its members.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_2145851.html

    There's plenty of blame to go around, and Hostess was probably a doomed company, but the bakers union picked a helluva time to force the layoff of 19,000 employees.
    Seems not all union folks are militant... the Teamsters were gonna work with the co... the bakers were the spoiled children... Wonder what the Teamsters think of the bakers now... whoops...
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

  8. #34
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    One more thing: According to Neil Boortz this morning... The Teamsters vote was private... the Bakers vote was public... (GA has not confirmed that). Now lets take a look at this from a theoretical point: If I were a union baker... and the vote was public... I would be risking my reputation, maybe my health as well as my families safety to vote no...

    So IF (and that is not confirmed) the Teamsters vote was private and the bakers vote was public... it appears that having a public vote sabotaged the outcome.

    GA's opinion: Things that 'sound good' (public voting) are not always good when one thinks them out. And it is VERY important for folks to think things out... otherwise they screw themselves.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

  9. #35
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    it seems Hostess is now in the drivers seat. There are at least 4 companies and a couple private investors lined up to buy the company. The union maybe screwed if they don't cooperate. A private equity firm MAY fire everyone and hire them back without the union (least thats what I would do)

    We will find out one way or the other today. Mediation starts this morning and if no resolution is found, Hostess said they will go directly to bankruptcy court tomorrow.

    Bottom line is, one way or another, Twinkies will be around for awhile. At least I hope so for the sake of those folks in Colorado and Washington <see my sig line>
    I only drink a little, but when I do
    I turn into another person and THAT person drinks a lot

  10. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmac00 View Post
    it seems Hostess is now in the drivers seat. There are at least 4 companies and a couple private investors lined up to buy the company. The union maybe screwed if they don't cooperate. A private equity firm MAY fire everyone and hire them back without the union (least thats what I would do)

    We will find out one way or the other today. Mediation starts this morning and if no resolution is found, Hostess said they will go directly to bankruptcy court tomorrow.

    Bottom line is, one way or another, Twinkies will be around for awhile. At least I hope so for the sake of those folks in Colorado and Washington <see my sig line>
    And all those Obama voters thought if they elected BHO... they would have everything given to them...

    SUCKERS!

    Live an learn... I bet they do not make that mistake twice...
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

  11. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by ncboston View Post
    Not to hijack the thread, but are you guys following the Walmart labor problems?
    Are you referring to what is happening here? http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread....1#post14628191
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  12. #38
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    Feb 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by hvacker View Post
    Many businesses have come to understand that Americans are willing to work for less. Sometimes much less. With threats of closing the doors, going to China, dropping bennies, workers are less secure than I can remember. Corporates can shut down and the execs still walk with money. Many CEO's don't care all that much as they haven't been involved with the company all that long anyway.

    Some mentioned that the gov has taken up many of workers needs like min wage and safety. That wasn't always the case. Unions still negotiate wages and bennies. arbitration, training. Many who have nothing good to say about Unions speak from ignorance having never been a member or live where Unions are non-existent. All they know has been been manipulated by corporate money. The Twinkie CEO on TV was all about blaming Unions even though they continued to produce products that had declining revenues. A lot of people don't eat that stuff anymore. Most companies might have considered offering other products. The blame should rest solely on those that make the decisions about products, marketing , and shackling the doors.I think the corporate was looking for an excuse to close a failing business because of failed management.
    Not at all. Everyone involved has to shoulder some blame here. You choose to defend the unions, you must also accept the outcome of their actions.
    Don't worry zombies are looking for brains, you're safe...

  13. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmac00 View Post
    what about the unions double standard? One of the builders I use to work for was a Union VP. he built homes on the side. He REFUSED to hire union people because............there labor rates were to high

    This is a personal shortcoming. He made a business decision that brings his ethics into question. Simple answer, he's out for himself.


    I have run into electricians doing side work, but if that same union guy sees a non-union electrician on "his" job the SHTF and there is all kinds of yelling and screaming.

    That's weard!

    I know members of the plumbers union that told me the unions are going to start "seeding" medium size plumbing shops. They are going to get a Union guy hired by a private contractor and see if that guy can turn the employees to the union. All the while getting paid by the union and the private contractor.

    As a business, and a Union is, I see nothing wrong with using seeding to convince workers of the benefits of Unions. The contractors have been using their suck up employees to spy om workers to make sure those workers are down the road. Contractors have threatened to close the doors, fire anyone that mentions the Union.
    Unions evolved out of necessity. At least you had an experience with Unions, although apparently a bad one. Many here speak from ignorance and just repeat what the boss says. I could give many good examples of what Unions do fpr workers. There are bad apples everywhere. Everything created by people is, by it's nature, flawed.


    Unions are NOT your friend. They are devious and malicious and there only goal is more dues and control
    I'm Union and I'm not considered any of those things. They have represented me well both as a member and as a signatory contractor. I have a good pension and made good money. My family has had a free full coverage health and welfare insurance, unemployment insurance, on-going training. There's a lot of reasons to be Union.
    Maybe it's NY. I think we've had this conversion before.
    "What Fools these mortals be"....Puck

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