Are some union's going to destroy this country

[2sac]

Back to the OP you can blame the union or you can blame the higher ups. Don't matter one way or another. They all had something to do with the success and failure of the business. This goes for both you're examples. There is greed on all levels. Let the market dictate the outcome.

[corny]

Your "theoretical" example is pretty much the truth of how things were in the USA when unions gained power. Say, 1898, the USA was becoming industrialized in a big way. Subsistence homesteading was getting replaced by workers moving into cities and working in factories or whatever. A 12 hour day for 6 days a week was not unusual. Children were worked also, very young and same type of hours. Many people died in unsafe working conditions. It is hard today to imagine the absurdity of how some employees were treated, they might be literally locked inside the work area. There was no real means to petition the business for better wages or working conditions, you might even get yourself a beating on your way home. The government was of no help at all, government actually backed the businesses in most part.

Let me add this: Today we think of unions as angling for money, I am not saying that is not true, but 'back in the day' unions were also much about working conditions and such.

Today the feds guarantee working conditions, minimum wage, and all sorts of work related issues. I think we have the unions to thank for that, without them we would all be working 14/6 for bread and water.

But, as Corny has pointed out already if you can read past his bludgeoning to death fantasy, unions have out-lived their usefulness and are actually become an impediment to a healthy economy in today's USA.

And a few words for corny:
Dear God, man.

LOL

I dont have any idea where that stuff comes from.... it just creeps out.

[Pascone10]

Looks like the company has been on a downward spiral for a long time now. The unions negotiated before loosing millions. I dont know about you but I would not be happy doing this job for 12 an hr when were make in the low to mid 30's now. I believe if the company wanted to stay in business it need to come out with new products that people are looking for ( healthier). The union didnt make that company file for bankruptcy. Its been the lack of demand and products made IMO.

http://management.fortune.cnn.com/20...kies-bankrupt/
Check out how much debt they racked up.. Thats not all because of the union....

[Tool-Slinger]

I dont have any idea where that stuff comes from.... it just creeps out.

Understood, I have recurring dreams involving a pix-ax for whatever unknown reason.

[Space Racer]

I hate it for the 13,900 laid off employees who weren't members of the bakers union. They lost their jobs when the 5000 bakers union employees refused to take an 8% pay cut, even though the teamsters union had already agreed to a similar cut for its members.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_2145851.html

There's plenty of blame to go around, and Hostess was probably a doomed company, but the bakers union picked a helluva time to force the layoff of 19,000 employees.

[Tool-Slinger]

I hate it for the 13,900 laid off employees who weren't members of the bakers union. They lost their jobs when the 5000 bakers union employees refused to take an 8% pay cut, even though the teamsters union had already agreed to a similar cut for its members.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_2145851.html

There's plenty of blame to go around, and Hostess was probably a doomed company, but the bakers union picked a helluva time to force the layoff of 19,000 employees.

The obamaconomy is bad for everyone. I would not blame unions right now, let's see where this goes. Unions and companies are reacting as expected. Sort of a panic right now. There will emerge a new "balance" in time.

I personally hate obamacare, but it is the law of the land now. You will all either submit to the rules, or you will be sent off to a dungeon. You might get tortured or raped there. So if the IRS says you owe them money then you had better pay it, or else.

[Pascone10]

http://m.yahoo.com/w/ygo-frontpage/l...en&.tsrc=yahoo


“They don’t care about family,” said Charlene Fletcher, a Wal-Mart associate in Duarte, Calif. She said she is expected to report for work at 3 p.m. on Thanksgiving Day. The workers said that when they complain about scheduling and other problems, management cuts their hours or fires people.

That does not seem fair.. It would be nice to have strength and stand up for what the employees believe in rather then just fire everyone and sweep it under the floor.. I believes unions still have their place.. THis is one example.

[jmac00]

I think we will see more and more of this kind of thing going on. American Airlines is doing the same thing. Go bankrupt, remove the Unions and go back to business.

Of course, poor business habits, poor decision making and poor planning won't help any corporation

The Obama administration has 4100+ NEW regulations coming on line in the next four years. These new regulations are paralyzing small business. The added burden of a over demanding unions is going to make things worse.

And the unions having a double standard is ridiculous. I ran into a electrician working in a home I was installing a furnace in. He said he worked for the union, but the union didn't have work so he was out doing SIDE-JOBS. Now if this same guy had found a independent Master electrician working on one of "his jobs" he would have a freaking cow.

[hvacker]

Look for the union label.....and you will find an inferior product that costs too much........

That's a lie!

[Tool-Slinger]

http://m.yahoo.com/w/ygo-frontpage/l...en&.tsrc=yahoo


“They don’t care about family,” said Charlene Fletcher, a Wal-Mart associate in Duarte, Calif. She said she is expected to report for work at 3 p.m. on Thanksgiving Day. The workers said that when they complain about scheduling and other problems, management cuts their hours or fires people.

That does not seem fair.. It would be nice to have strength and stand up for what the employees believe in rather then just fire everyone and sweep it under the floor.. I believes unions still have their place.. THis is one example.

They need to stop griping like babies. I have worked every holiday as that goes with the job.

[2sac]

They need to stop griping like babies. I have worked every holiday as that goes with the job.

We're talking the difference between skilled and unskilled labor. I'd bet if they were making $90 an hour to work the holiday, they would. It's the mentality which is what kills them. That has to do with the way they were raised. My father worked 3 jobs simultaneously for as far back as i can remember and still works now that he is retired. My grandfather was a union screw machine operator and worked a second job to take care of his family. If the boss asks me to work, I work. Apparently the people who put the cream filling inside the twinkies have let it get to their heads.

[Tool-Slinger]

We're talking the difference between skilled and unskilled labor. I'd bet if they were making $90 an hour to work the holiday, they would. It's the mentality which is what kills them. That has to do with the way they were raised. My father worked 3 jobs simultaneously for as far back as i can remember and still works now that he is retired. My grandfather was a union screw machine operator and worked a second job to take care of his family. If the boss asks me to work, I work. Apparently the people who put the cream filling inside the twinkies have let it get to their heads.

Amen brother.

[hvacker]

Many businesses have come to understand that Americans are willing to work for less. Sometimes much less. With threats of closing the doors, going to China, dropping bennies, workers are less secure than I can remember. Corporates can shut down and the execs still walk with money. Many CEO's don't care all that much as they haven't been involved with the company all that long anyway.

Some mentioned that the gov has taken up many of workers needs like min wage and safety. That wasn't always the case. Unions still negotiate wages and bennies. arbitration, training. Many who have nothing good to say about Unions speak from ignorance having never been a member or live where Unions are non-existent. All they know has been been manipulated by corporate money. The Twinkie CEO on TV was all about blaming Unions even though they continued to produce products that had declining revenues. A lot of people don't eat that stuff anymore. Most companies might have considered offering other products. The blame should rest solely on those that make the decisions about products, marketing , and shackling the doors.
I think the corporate was looking for an excuse to close a failing business because of failed management.