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  1. #53
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Florida Space Coast
    Posts
    503
    Quote Originally Posted by teddy bear View Post
    Glad you are happy. Personally, I would prefer 78^F, 45%RH. A properly set up simple a/c with a small whole dehumidifier would provide this using less energy. Less of an investment and lower operating cost.
    Also will be interested in hearing about your %RH with cool wet weather. Also many duct systems do not provide uniform air distribution throughout the home during low air flow. Also during the off cycle, interested in observation of the moisture re-evaporation of the moisture on the large coil back into the home.
    Keep us posted.
    Regards TB
    TB, I don't want to sound ungrateful for your advice, or to be argumentative, but I have to quote what I said in an earlier post:

    "I don't see how such a unit could be installed near the ahu in my laundry room.... also wouldn't want to add another $15 a month to my electric bill.

    I also don't see a need for additional ventilation in my house. Two separate infiltrometer tests have shown that my existing ventilation exceeds the ASHRAE minimum, with duct leakage at less than 5%.

    So far, the Green Speed dehumidification has cost me almost nothing! I mean my kWh usage for the 2 months since installation is as low as it's EVER been... less than in ANY prior year duing months when NO A/C or heat was used (usually Dec & Feb)."


    Furthermore, I haven't noticed any "re-evaporation back into the home" during the "off cycle". Like I said, the unit runs pretty much all the time on the lowest speed for dehumidification. The fan is set to "auto" so it doesn't blow across the coil when the unit is not cooling or dehumidifying. Therefore, when it's not running, any moisture on the coil drips into the condensate drain and doesn't "re-evaporate".

    And lastly, my contractor "tweaked" my ductwork to provide almost perfect airflow distribution throughout the home. I chose him because he was an honest-to-goodness expert who wasn't too "know-it-all" to listen to what I was telling him about my previous airflow imbalance. The unit runs at minimum cfm pretty much all the time and the airflow is balanced from the front guest quarters to the back "add-on" office and everywhere in between throughout my long, narrow floor plan.

    I'm really happy!

  2. #54
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    SW FL
    Posts
    6,274

    Thumbs up ASHRAE STD 55 IS A GREAT GUIDE IN ADDRESSING VARIOUS CONDITIONS OF COMFORT

    Quote Originally Posted by teddy bear View Post
    Glad you are happy. Personally, I would prefer 78^F, 45%RH. A properly set up simple a/c with a small whole dehumidifier would provide this using less energy. Less of an investment and lower operating cost.
    Regards TB
    LISTENING to the Customer is the Most Important Attribute of a Technician or Salesperson.

    COMFORT IS DESCRIBED BY A VAST RANGE OF CONDITIONS. Reference - ASHRAE 55

    80'F and 42% R.H. is fine with me
    in a Family Room environment or
    on a 30 mile bicycle ride.

    _ ..... _____ _________ ...
    xxxxxxxxxxxx ___ ____ xxxxxxxxxxx
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Designer Dan
    It's Not Rocket Science, But It is SCIENCE with "Some Art". ___ ___ K EEP I T S IMPLE & S INCERE

    Define the Building Envelope and Perform a Detailed Load Calc: It's ALL About Windows and Make-up Air Requirements. Know Your Equipment Capabilities

  3. #55
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Florida Space Coast
    Posts
    503

    2 Degrees Short of a Boy Band, 3-Ton Greenspeed Holding 75 Degree Setpoint!

    High temperature in Central Florida this afternoon was 96*, yet the Greenspeed is still holding 75*. The inverter did have to ramp up to 75-80% for awhile with about 600-700 total cfm from the air handler, but it's been comfy all day at my house!

    Perhaps I could have gotten away with a 2-ton after all, but I'm thrilled that I stuck to my guns and downsized from the old 3.5-ton Rheem to the 3-ton Greenspeed. Most dealers refused to install less than a 4-ton in my 1827sf house!!!!!!

  4. #56
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Rochester NY
    Posts
    4,722
    Quote Originally Posted by Florida Joy View Post
    High temperature in Central Florida this afternoon was 96*, yet the Greenspeed is still holding 75*. The inverter did have to ramp up to 75-80% for awhile with about 600-700 total cfm from the air handler, but it's been comfy all day at my house!

    Perhaps I could have gotten away with a 2-ton after all, but I'm thrilled that I stuck to my guns and downsized from the old 3.5-ton Rheem to the 3-ton Greenspeed. Most dealers refused to install less than a 4-ton in my 1827sf house!!!!!!
    Sa WEET!!!

    Glad to see that "from great risks comes great rewards" is holding true here. As I recall this was WAY bigger investment than you were first considering. That, when combined with the "downsizing" fear you were being fed by your local guys, meant the decision took huge guts.

    (Turns out the 2 ton doesn't really turn down much lower than the 3 ton, so it probably would have only saved the difference in cost, not provided less cycling, more savings, or better comfort.)
    Which makes more sense to you?
    CONSERVATION - turning your thermostat back and being uncomfortable. Maybe saving 5-10%
    ENERGY EFFICIENCY - leaving your thermostat where everyone is comfortable. Saving 30-70%

    DO THE NUMBERS! Step on a HOMESCALE.
    What is comfort? Well, it AIN'T just TEMPERATURE!

    Energy Obese? An audit is the next step - go to BPI.org, or RESNET, and find an auditor near you.

  5. #57
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Florida Space Coast
    Posts
    503

    Update for July 2013

    Here's an update through my last FPL billing as of July 11, 2013. The hot, humid Central Florida summer season is well underway and I'm extremely pleased with my low electric bills, given that I now have two people living in my home instead of one! Greenspeed is great!

    Bill Date Days kWH $Bill
    11/10/2012 30 794 81.05 *3-Ton Greenspeed installed 11/08/2012
    11/10/2011 29 811 84.22

    10/11/2012 29 1531 161.92 *3.5-Ton Rheem condemned 10/18/2012
    10/12/2011 29 1489 159.87

    09/12/2012 30 1680 179.09
    09/13/2011 34 2081 229.53

    08/13/2012 32 2360 257.78 *3.5-Ton Rheem leak repaired 07/31/2012
    08/10/2011 28 2064 227.74

    07/11/2013 29 1204 124.82 *3-Ton Greenspeed 24/7 auto cooling (no heat needed) (See NOTE #2)
    07/12/2012 30 1868 200.87
    07/13/2011 33 2203 244.11

    06/12/2013 30 890 90.99 *3-Ton Greenspeed 24/7 auto cooling (no heat needed) (See NOTE #2)
    06/12/2012 33 1741 186.81
    06/10/2011 30 1749 190.64

    05/13/2013 33 928 94.54 *3-Ton Greenspeed 24/7 auto cooling (no heat needed)
    05/10/2012 29 1138 116.80
    05/11/2011 29 1438 153.71

    04/10/2013 29 910 92.68 *3-Ton Greenspeed 24/7 auto heating/cooling (See NOTE #1)
    04/11/2012 30 1119 114.06
    04/12/2011 33 870 89.77

    03/12/2013 28 594 63.14 *3-Ton Greenspeed 24/7 auto heating/cooling
    03/12/2012 31 637 66.21
    03/10/2011 28 420 46.64 *Windows open for Spring, 3.5-Ton Rheem turned off!

    02/12/2013 32 604 63.30 *3-Ton Greenspeed 24/7 auto heating/cooling
    02/10/2012 29 551 58.15
    02/10/2011 29 723 74.59

    01/11/2013 31 598 62.79 *3-Ton Greenspeed 24/7 auto heating/cooling
    01/12/2012 33 795 81.04
    01/12/2011 33 1137 116.60

    12/11/2012 31 566 59.64 *3-Ton Greenspeed 24/7 auto heating/cooling
    12/10/2011 30 579 61.95
    12/10/2010 31 580 61.04

    NOTE #1: 03/30/13 - 04/10/13: Had six family members visiting for Easter and four stayed on to help with garage sale and landscaping the following week. Extra daily baths, showers, dishwasher runs and hair dryer usage, cooking three meals a day, washer/dryer ran almost non-stop. They had all my doors and windows opened with A/C “off” for 12 hours a day while working between outdoors, the garage, the laundry, the kitchen, and cleaning out “junk” in closets. Outdoor temperature and humidity rose into the 80’s, Greenspeed “recovered” about 8 to 10 degrees each evening for sleep time.

    NOTE #2: 06/10/13: My grandson moved in with me, so I'm expecting double the hot showers, dishwasher runs, cooking and washer/dryer usage throughout the summer. Hoping the FSEC retrogrades offset the increased power consumption related to a second resident.

  6. #58
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Rochester NY
    Posts
    4,722
    May June July looks like 5390, 4747, 3022

    Using 44% less than 2 years ago.

    It looks like 4-500 kwh base use? This means for those 3 months, for cooling you went from 3890 to 3247 to 1522 kwh.

    61% savings on cooling consumption from 2 years ago. Difference last year was noticeable too, that due to weatherization ya think?

    Could weather normalize month to month and year to year. You don't happen to have those numbers in a spreadsheet we can play with by chance?...

    Invited Danny Parker, maybe he'll share some thoughts.
    Which makes more sense to you?
    CONSERVATION - turning your thermostat back and being uncomfortable. Maybe saving 5-10%
    ENERGY EFFICIENCY - leaving your thermostat where everyone is comfortable. Saving 30-70%

    DO THE NUMBERS! Step on a HOMESCALE.
    What is comfort? Well, it AIN'T just TEMPERATURE!

    Energy Obese? An audit is the next step - go to BPI.org, or RESNET, and find an auditor near you.

  7. #59
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Florida Space Coast
    Posts
    503
    Quote Originally Posted by tedkidd View Post
    May June July looks like 5390, 4747, 3022

    Using 44% less than 2 years ago.
    Two years ago I lived alone and didn't have visitors or garage sale activity for the May billing period, or a second resident for the July billing period.

    Quote Originally Posted by tedkidd View Post
    It looks like 4-500 kwh base use? This means for those 3 months, for cooling you went from 3890 to 3247 to 1522 kwh.
    My best guess for base use would be 500-550 kwh.

    Quote Originally Posted by tedkidd View Post
    61% savings on cooling consumption from 2 years ago. Difference last year was noticeable too, that due to weatherization ya think?
    Reduced energy consumption last year was primarily due to me raising the thermostat from 75* to 78* to conserve energy. I wanted it cooler, but the old Rheem couldn't keep up anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by tedkidd View Post
    Could weather normalize month to month and year to year. You don't happen to have those numbers in a spreadsheet we can play with by chance?...
    I don't.

  8. #60
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Rochester NY
    Posts
    4,722
    Thanks, wow, lot of savings in that thermostat change! Or maybe not, 650 kwh for 90 days of discomfort (?). Looks like $20-25 a month? How uncomfortable was it? Worth it?

    Hmmm. The grandson, if you had to guess, 200 kwh add?

    When was the weatherization work? Do you recall seeing savings or comfort improvement from that?

    Would you say this is meeting your expectations of savings? Do you recall what that expectation was?

    Have you had any super hot days where the equipment didn't quite keep the place as comfortable as you would like (trouble keeping up)?

    I believe you are becoming somewhat expert in your understanding of RH and dew point. (you might enjoy this http://bit.ly/comfortcalculator)
    Are you using the equipment to drive RH down to low target levels? If so, does it allow you to have a higher comfortable temperature setting? (I'm trying to parse out operational strategies that consider managing RH and Mean Radiant Temperatures thereby allowing higher summer and lower winter settings with the same or better comfort, and if there is any meaningful savings opportunity in this thinking. I think you understand what I just said, but if it's gobbledy gook let me know where I failed.)
    Which makes more sense to you?
    CONSERVATION - turning your thermostat back and being uncomfortable. Maybe saving 5-10%
    ENERGY EFFICIENCY - leaving your thermostat where everyone is comfortable. Saving 30-70%

    DO THE NUMBERS! Step on a HOMESCALE.
    What is comfort? Well, it AIN'T just TEMPERATURE!

    Energy Obese? An audit is the next step - go to BPI.org, or RESNET, and find an auditor near you.

  9. #61
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Florida Space Coast
    Posts
    503
    Quote Originally Posted by tedkidd View Post
    Thanks, wow, lot of savings in that thermostat change! Or maybe not, 650 kwh for 90 days of discomfort (?). Looks like $20-25 a month? How uncomfortable was it? Worth it?
    I believe it was worth it. It wasn't all that uncomfortable, since the old system maintained humidity around 40%. I got used to it!

    With the Greenspeed overcooling up to 3* to dehumidify, indoor RH% now hovers around 50-55%. The house is comfortable now with a daytime set-point of 75*. I do turn it down to 72* for sleeping.

    Quote Originally Posted by tedkidd View Post
    Hmmm. The grandson, if you had to guess, 200 kwh add?
    I'd guess more like 400 kwh. He takes long, hot showers once or twice a day, while he sings to loud music.... like a teenage girl (lol)! I've actually been cooking (using the stovetop and the oven like a Grandma should) several times a day, instead of heating frozen dinners in the microwave. And the dishwasher runs at least 3 times a week instead of once very 2 weeks! Washing machine and dryer use is triple what it was! Vacuuming has quadrupled, or more, due to hair from the Grandson's new puppy.

    Quote Originally Posted by tedkidd View Post
    When was the weatherization work? Do you recall seeing savings or comfort improvement from that?
    That work was done a week after the old Rheem was repaired (end of July/first of August 2012). It cooled better than it ever had until it finally died in mid-October, so I'm not sure how much to attribute to the added insulation and duct sealing.

    Quote Originally Posted by tedkidd View Post
    Would you say this is meeting your expectations of savings? Do you recall what that expectation was?
    Absolutely! I'd expected between $400-600 a year savings, assuming only one occupant (me).

    Quote Originally Posted by tedkidd View Post
    Have you had any super hot days where the equipment didn't quite keep the place as comfortable as you would like (trouble keeping up)?
    Super hot days.... YES (high of 96 last Sunday). Trouble keeping up.... not really. The foyer (surrounded by glass) was warmer than usual during the afternoon, but the living areas all remained comfortable. The unit does run at 100% of capacity during the afternoons on the super hot days, but slows down to normal (around 40%) as the sun goes down.

  10. #62
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Florida Space Coast
    Posts
    503

    Update for August 2013

    Here's an update through my last FPL billing as of August 12, 2013. The hot, humid Central Florida summer season is well underway and I'm extremely pleased with my low electric bills, given that I now have two people living in my home instead of one! Greenspeed is great!

    Bill Date Days kWH $Bill
    11/10/2012 30 794 81.05 *3-Ton Greenspeed installed 11/08/2012
    11/10/2011 29 811 84.22

    10/11/2012 29 1531 161.92 *3.5-Ton Rheem condemned 10/18/2012
    10/12/2011 29 1489 159.87

    09/12/2012 30 1680 179.09
    09/13/2011 34 2081 229.53

    08/12/2013 32 1371 144.11 **3-Ton Greenspeed 24/7 auto cooling (See NOTE #2)
    08/13/2012 32 2360 257.78 *3.5-Ton Rheem leak repaired 07/31/2012
    08/10/2011 28 2064 227.74

    07/11/2013 29 1204 124.82 **3-Ton Greenspeed 24/7 auto cooling (See NOTE #2)
    07/12/2012 30 1868 200.87
    07/13/2011 33 2203 244.11

    06/12/2013 30 890 90.99 **3-Ton Greenspeed 24/7 auto cooling (See NOTE #2)
    06/12/2012 33 1741 186.81
    06/10/2011 30 1749 190.64

    05/13/2013 33 928 94.54 **3-Ton Greenspeed 24/7 auto cooling
    05/10/2012 29 1138 116.80
    05/11/2011 29 1438 153.71

    04/10/2013 29 910 92.68 **3-Ton Greenspeed 24/7 auto heating/cooling (See NOTE #1)
    04/11/2012 30 1119 114.06
    04/12/2011 33 870 89.77

    03/12/2013 28 594 63.14 **3-Ton Greenspeed 24/7 auto heating/cooling
    03/12/2012 31 637 66.21
    03/10/2011 28 420 46.64 *Windows open for Spring, 3.5-Ton Rheem turned off!

    02/12/2013 32 604 63.30 **3-Ton Greenspeed 24/7 auto heating/cooling
    02/10/2012 29 551 58.15
    02/10/2011 29 723 74.59

    01/11/2013 31 598 62.79 **3-Ton Greenspeed 24/7 auto heating/cooling
    01/12/2012 33 795 81.04
    01/12/2011 33 1137 116.60

    12/11/2012 31 566 59.64 **3-Ton Greenspeed 24/7 auto heating/cooling
    12/10/2011 30 579 61.95
    12/10/2010 31 580 61.04

    NOTE #1: 03/30/13 - 04/10/13: Had six family members visiting for Easter and four stayed on to help with garage sale and landscaping the following week. Extra daily baths, showers, dishwasher runs and hair dryer usage, cooking three meals a day, washer/dryer ran almost non-stop. They had all my doors and windows opened with A/C “off” for 12 hours a day while working between outdoors, the garage, the laundry, the kitchen, and cleaning out “junk” in closets. Outdoor temperature and humidity rose into the 80’s, Greenspeed “recovered” about 8 to 10 degrees each evening for sleep time.

    NOTE #2: 06/10/13: My grandson moved in with me... double the hot showers, triple the dishwasher runs, quadruple the cooking and washer/dryer usage. Not sure the FSEC retrogrades can offset the increased power consumption related to a second resident.

  11. #63
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    south louisiana
    Posts
    3,170
    that is more in line with the savings I'd expect to see.
    The cure of the part should not be attempted without the cure of the whole. ~Plato

  12. #64
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    SW FL
    Posts
    6,274

    THREE-YEAR ELECTRIC USE COMPARISON

    Graphical Comparison indicates a huge percentage reduction in electric use ( ATTACHMENT).
    ________________________ ... ... ________ _________
    The Melbourne FL Cooling Degree Days (CDD) of 2013 are within ~2% of the average for 2011 & 2012.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Designer Dan
    It's Not Rocket Science, But It is SCIENCE with "Some Art". ___ ___ K EEP I T S IMPLE & S INCERE

    Define the Building Envelope and Perform a Detailed Load Calc: It's ALL About Windows and Make-up Air Requirements. Know Your Equipment Capabilities

  13. #65
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    SW FL
    Posts
    6,274

    SEER 18 versus 13

    ESTIMATE
    $0.106 /kW

    Energy Savings might be more than $400 per year for Cooling Degree Days near 3,400 ... East Central Florida
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Designer Dan
    It's Not Rocket Science, But It is SCIENCE with "Some Art". ___ ___ K EEP I T S IMPLE & S INCERE

    Define the Building Envelope and Perform a Detailed Load Calc: It's ALL About Windows and Make-up Air Requirements. Know Your Equipment Capabilities

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