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  1. #27
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    SW FL
    Posts
    6,390
    Quote Originally Posted by Florida Joy View Post
    While I agree that <50%RH would be ideal, and I absolutely expect my Green Speed to maintain that when running full blast, I discovered that the ASHRAE guidance recommends <65%RH according to the link below.

    https://www.ashrae.org/File%20Librar...-01-FAQ-92.pdf
    I would refer to mandate of < 65% R.H. as a HAZARD WARNING
    and definitely not term it as ASHRAE guidance.

    As far as R.H.% comfort level is concerned, > 50% is QUITE NOTICABLE as ANNOYING / DISLIKED to the Majority of people.

    I would go as far as saying > 55% R.H. indicates that A/C equipment is truly disfunctional IMO.
    Hotel/Motel rooms are a prime example of POOR humidity control.
    Designer Dan
    It's Not Rocket Science, But It is SCIENCE with "Some Art". ___ ___ K EEP I T S IMPLE & S INCERE

    Define the Building Envelope and Perform a Detailed Load Calc: It's ALL About Windows and Make-up Air Requirements. Know Your Equipment Capabilities

  2. #28
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    SW FL
    Posts
    6,390
    Quote Originally Posted by teddy bear View Post
    You are probably right.

    What does EPA, ASHRAE, American Medical ASS., and the Am Lung Ass. know?
    The build up of indoor pollutants are good for you?
    <50%RH is more comfortable than high indoor %RH?

    Mold and dust mites got to live to? Sorry I intruded.
    Regards TB
    I know I feel comfortable when dew point is < 61'F.

    I am not aware of these four organizations each MANDATING < 50% R.H. with use of mechanical means for 8,760 hours per year.
    Designer Dan
    It's Not Rocket Science, But It is SCIENCE with "Some Art". ___ ___ K EEP I T S IMPLE & S INCERE

    Define the Building Envelope and Perform a Detailed Load Calc: It's ALL About Windows and Make-up Air Requirements. Know Your Equipment Capabilities

  3. #29
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Madison, WI/Cape Coral, FL
    Posts
    6,597
    o
    Quote Originally Posted by Florida Joy View Post
    At first glance (before I zoomed in for a closer look) the chart looked like a complicated, somewhat intimidating, quilt pattern! lol Anyway, very interesting.

    Is this data from your home in Cape Coral? Do you have pictures of the unit installed, including how it's attached to the ahu, how it vents to the outside, how it drains? From pix I've seen elsewhere, I don't see how such a unit could be installed near the ahu in my laundry room.... also wouldn't want to add another $15 a month to my electric bill.

    I also don't see a need for additional ventilation in my house. Two separate infiltrometer tests have shown that my existing ventilation exceeds the ASHRAE minimum, with duct leakage at less than 5%.

    So far, the Green Speed dehumidification has cost me almost nothing! I mean my kWh usage for the 2 months since installation is as low as it's EVER been... less than in ANY prior year duing months when NO A/C or heat was used (usually Dec & Feb). Total Dec electric bill averaged 18 kWh/day, Jan bill is on track for 19 kWh/day.
    http://www.ultra-aire.com/pdf/Ultra-...Spec_Sheet.pdf


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vnl2Se2g70


    I do not have a picture.
    The reference to utilty cost refers to keeping an unoccupied FL home dry through out the summer. I shut off the a/c and keep the home <50%RH with dehumidification.
    During days of high cooling loads, no dehumidification is required with a properly setup a/c. During cool wet weather with low/ho cooling loads, some dehumidification is required. The dehumidification cost depends on the mosture levels and occpancy numbers.
    Fresh air ventilation is needed in most moderately air tight homes during calm weather, the air handling equipment is not operating much, and the home is occupied.

    Testing for formaldehyde will show the times when you home needs fresh air ventilation. Unoccupied homes do not need fresh air ventilation.

    Regarding humidity levels, <50%RH is ideal but not critical. Lower %RH allows higher indoor temperatures with good comfort levels. Certainly, occasional high humidity for short periods is not the end of the world. Extended +58%RH grows dust mites and may allow mold growing under carpeting on concrete.
    Some of my comments were "sour grapes" on my part because of missing the dehu sale. Just keep the info on your testing coming.
    Your test results will depend on the weather challanges that you have during the testing.
    Regards TB
    Bear Rules: Keep our home <50% RH summer, controls mites/mold and very comfortable.
    Provide 60-100 cfm of fresh air when occupied to purge indoor pollutants and keep window dry during cold weather. T-stat setup/setback +8 hrs. saves energy
    Use +Merv 10 air filter. -Don't forget the "Golden Rule"

  4. #30
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Florida Space Coast
    Posts
    503
    Quote Originally Posted by teddy bear View Post
    o

    http://www.ultra-aire.com/pdf/Ultra-...Spec_Sheet.pdf

    ...............

    I do not have a picture.

    ...............

    Some of my comments were "sour grapes" on my part because of missing the dehu sale. Regards TB
    Thanks for the brochure. It gives me a better understanding of how this unit is designed to work with an existing air handler/ductwork, but I still can't picture it in my little laundry room. For "whole-house" application, I see it needs a separate return air grille with additional ductwork running through my attic and then down into my laundry directly to the unit's "input" connection. More holes in the ceiling.... yuck! Then I see that the unit's "output" connection would have to be patched in to the existing supply duct (perpendicular to airflow)... another hole in the ceiling of my laundry... yuck! I'm guessing it also needs a separate condensate drain line run to the outside as well... unless the drain tube could somehow be pushed down into the condensate clean-out attached to the existing evaporator drain pan? No space to put the unit next to my air handler, so I'd guess it would have to "hang" from the ceiling... I'd think changing filters would be a royal PITA and my electrical panel (next the the ahu) would probably be in the way.

    Looks like a lot of work and expense for a 70 pint unit that might get used 8 or 10 hours a day for 3 months a year, at most, so don't feel bad about "missing a sale" on this type of unit.

    I have been looking at portable units with the same 70 pint capacity that could be wheeled into my foyer (near the existing return air grille) and plugged in for a few hours at night and then wheeled back to the garage when not in use. Of course I'd have to empty the bucket every morning. If I went away for vacation, I could always leave the laundry room door open and set the portable unit on top of the washer and let it drain into my laundry sink! The power consumption and warranty for this type unit appears comparable to the 70H with much (very much) less of an investment.

    What do you think?

  5. #31
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Florida Space Coast
    Posts
    503
    Update: Haven't needed heat at all this month, even at night, so last week I reset the sleep time (11pm-8am) cooling temp down to 68* so it will overcool to 65* while dehumidifying at night. Daytime setpoint is still 75*, so dehumidification overcools to 72* throughout the day. Outdoor RH has ranged from a low of 75% during the day to 90% or more at night, yet I've been able to maintain indoor RH between 52-57%. Pretty good, I think! And I'm still only using 19 kWh per day... January electric bill was $62.79, which includes 3 days of heating used the week before Christmas!

  6. #32
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    SW FL
    Posts
    6,390
    Quote Originally Posted by Florida Joy View Post
    Update: Haven't needed heat at all this month, even at night,
    so last week I reset the sleep time (11pm-8am) cooling temp down to 68* so it will overcool to 65* while dehumidifying at night.
    Daytime setpoint is still 75*,
    so dehumidification overcools to 72* throughout the day.

    Outdoor RH has ranged from a low of 75% during the day to 90% or more at night, yet I've been able to maintain indoor RH between 52-57%.
    The unit is obviously ( given only 600 kwHr/month) not running very long.

    It's not likely you will see < 53% R.H. at < 71'F.
    The air leaving the coil would have to be quite cold (L.A.T. < 51'F).

    I don't think you can call yourself a True Floridian, if you're awakening to < 71'F.
    Designer Dan
    It's Not Rocket Science, But It is SCIENCE with "Some Art". ___ ___ K EEP I T S IMPLE & S INCERE

    Define the Building Envelope and Perform a Detailed Load Calc: It's ALL About Windows and Make-up Air Requirements. Know Your Equipment Capabilities

  7. #33
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Florida Space Coast
    Posts
    503
    Quote Originally Posted by dan sw fl View Post
    The unit is obviously ( given only 600 kwHr/month) not running very long.
    Yep, no need for heating and it rarely runs in cooling... only a bit at night between 11-12PM when it first drops the temp to 68*. Other than that, it runs to dehumidify several times an hour throughout the day, with the compressor at 40% and airflow around 375 CFM.

    Quote Originally Posted by dan sw fl View Post
    It's not likely you will see < 53% R.H. at < 71'F.
    The air leaving the coil would have to be quite cold (L.A.T. < 51'F).
    Hadn't thought of that. I don't have the "optional" L.A.T. sensor, so I'll have to get out my ladder some evening and measure the air temperature at the closest supply vent.

    Quote Originally Posted by dan sw fl View Post
    I don't think you can call yourself a True Floridian, if you're awakening to < 71'F.
    Ha,ha! I was born in Michigan (UP), but I grew up in Central Florida. The only a/c I knew growing up was a box fan at home and open windows at school. When I finally experienced a/c in my first apartment as an adult, I was hooked! Over the past 45 years I've lived around the globe with all types of heating/cooling (or the lack thereof). While I've grown to dislike cold temps outdoors (I like snow even less), I still like it chilly in the house. My kids think I'm nuts!

  8. #34
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Florida Space Coast
    Posts
    503
    I jotted down the lifetime run data from the Infinity control for the heatpump and the evaporator coil, as of this afternoon. The unit was installed on 11/8/2012 and was up and running by 5PM that day, so this data reflects runtime over the past 10 weeks. Coil data includes the fan running by itself everyday at 1PM for the daily duct system check and whenever I felt like checking ESP for myself, "just for kicks". The data for cooling includes the time the heatpump runs solely for dehumidification.

    My Dec FPL bill for 11/10 - 12/11 was $59.64 for 566 kWh.

    My Jan FPL bill for 12/11 - 1/11 was $62.79 for 598 kWh.

    Heat pump cycles:
    Cooling: 1534
    Heating: 71

    Heat pump runtime hours:
    Cooling: 285
    Heating: 45

    Coil cycles:
    Fan: 1694

    Coil runtime hours:
    Fan: 332

  9. #35
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Delaware
    Posts
    3,824
    Month KWH Amount
    August 2012 2360 258***
    July 2012 1868 200
    June 2012 1741 187
    May 2012 1138 117
    April 2012 1119 114
    March 2012 637 66
    February 2012 551 58
    January 2012 795 81
    December 2011 579 62
    November 2011 811 84
    October 2011 1489 160
    September 2011 2081 230
    August 2011 2064 228
    July 2011 2203 244
    June 2011 1749 191
    May 2011 1438 154
    April 2011 870 90
    March 2011 420 47
    February 2011 723 75
    January 2011 1137 117
    December 2010 580 61
    November 2010 980 99
    October 2010 1847 199
    September 2010 2197 240



    Fill this in with current info so we can compare.


    This is the info directly from my August FPL bill:

    kWh used 2360
    Customer charge: $5.90 per month
    Storm charge 2.78
    Gross receipts tax 6.08
    Franchise charge 14.59
    **The electric service amount
    includes the following charges:
    Fuel: $92.49
    (First 1000 kWh at $0.033430)
    (Over 1000 kWh at $0.043430)
    Non-fuel: $135.94
    (First 1000 kWh at $0.051840)
    (Over 1000 kWh at $0.061840)

    And you wanted a 4-Ton
    Always here

  10. #36
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Florida Space Coast
    Posts
    503
    Quote Originally Posted by energy star View Post
    Month KWH Amount
    August 2012 2360 258***
    July 2012 1868 200
    June 2012 1741 187
    May 2012 1138 117
    April 2012 1119 114
    March 2012 637 66
    February 2012 551 58
    January 2012 795 81
    December 2011 579 62
    November 2011 811 84
    October 2011 1489 160
    September 2011 2081 230
    August 2011 2064 228
    July 2011 2203 244
    June 2011 1749 191
    May 2011 1438 154
    April 2011 870 90
    March 2011 420 47
    February 2011 723 75
    January 2011 1137 117
    December 2010 580 61
    November 2010 980 99
    October 2010 1847 199
    September 2010 2197 240



    Fill this in with current info so we can compare.


    This is the info directly from my August FPL bill:

    kWh used 2360
    Customer charge: $5.90 per month
    Storm charge 2.78
    Gross receipts tax 6.08
    Franchise charge 14.59
    **The electric service amount
    includes the following charges:
    Fuel: $92.49
    (First 1000 kWh at $0.033430)
    (Over 1000 kWh at $0.043430)
    Non-fuel: $135.94
    (First 1000 kWh at $0.051840)
    (Over 1000 kWh at $0.061840)

    And you wanted a 4-Ton
    This is the info directly from my January FPL bill:

    kWh used 598
    Customer charge: $7.00 per month
    Storm charge 0.23
    Gross receipts tax 1.48
    Franchise charge 3.55
    **The electric service amount
    includes the following charges:
    Fuel: $16.60
    (First 1000 kWh at $0.027890)
    (Over 1000 kWh at $0.037890)
    Non-fuel: $33.85
    (First 1000 kWh at $0.056610)
    (Over 1000 kWh at $0.066610)

  11. #37
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Delaware
    Posts
    3,824
    Dec 2010 FPL = 580 KWH
    Dec 2011 FPL = 579 KWH
    Dec 2012 FPL = 566 KWH
    Always here

  12. #38
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Florida Space Coast
    Posts
    503
    Quote Originally Posted by energy star View Post
    Dec 2010 FPL = 580 KWH
    Dec 2011 FPL = 579 KWH
    Dec 2012 FPL = 566 KWH
    Month to month comparison won't mean much until April or May when cooling season really gets underway.

  13. #39
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Florida Space Coast
    Posts
    503
    Good news! FPL notified me today that the new online Energy Dashboard is now available for my account. FPL installed "smart meters" in my area about 6 months ago and the "smart grid" is now active in my area. As of last Friday, usage data is now uploaded to the Dashboard so I can see my consumption by day and by hour of the day. The data showing this afternoon is up-to-date through midnight last night, so it's not "real time", but it's pretty close! Hourly usage data is charted along with average temperature and humidity for each hour of the day. Pretty cool!

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