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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Florida Space Coast
    Posts
    503
    Quote Originally Posted by Florida Joy View Post
    I wasn't aware of that study. Wouldn't qualify anyway... my house was built in 1980. The one I applied for is an FPL retrofit study for 30 homes in Brevard and 30 homes in Dade/Broward counties.

    http://www.fsec.ucf.edu/en/research/...plretrofit.htm
    This may be a follow-on to an earlier study that used only foreclosed properties.

    http://www.fsec.ucf.edu/en/publicati...-PF-448-10.pdf

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Rochester NY
    Posts
    4,702
    REALLY exciting!
    Which makes more sense to you?
    CONSERVATION - turning your thermostat back and being uncomfortable. Maybe saving 5-10%
    ENERGY EFFICIENCY - leaving your thermostat where everyone is comfortable. Saving 30-70%

    DO THE NUMBERS! Step on a HOMESCALE.
    What is comfort? Well, it AIN'T just TEMPERATURE!

    Energy Obese? An audit is the next step - go to BPI.org, or RESNET, and find an auditor near you.

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Florida Space Coast
    Posts
    503
    Quote Originally Posted by dan sw fl View Post
    NO ONE
    better to be selected for Study than a brilliant Young Lady _ FLORIDA Joy

    BUT FSEC picked the WRONG 6 months.
    The heat pump may run 100 hours in the December through February Period and
    you won't get to know Anything about summer cooling performance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Florida Joy View Post
    Dan, the young lady on the phone guessed at "6 months or so" when I asked how long the study would last. However, the agreement she sent me to sign actually states the study will last up to 2 years.

    Should be very interesting!
    November through February there is usually very little heat pump usage (cooling or heating) at my house. Over the past week, the temperature outdoors has varied between 58/59 at night to 80/81 during the day. However, my indoor temperature hasn't moved below 70 or above 73. No need for heating or cooling!

    The Green Speed does go into dehumidification mode thoughout the day, but I've been monitoring my meter readings daily and I can tell the energy usage is negligible.

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Florida Space Coast
    Posts
    503

    Green Speed Auto Dehumidification - Minor Programming Glitch

    Quote Originally Posted by Florida Joy View Post
    November through February there is usually very little heat pump usage (cooling or heating) at my house. Over the past week, the temperature outdoors has varied between 58/59 at night to 80/81 during the day. However, my indoor temperature hasn't moved below 70 or above 73. No need for heating or cooling!

    The Green Speed does go into dehumidification mode thoughout the day, but I've been monitoring my meter readings daily and I can tell the energy usage is negligible.
    I've discovered the Infinity Control will only dehumidify (i.e., overcool by 3 degrees) when the system is "idle" in the "cooling" mode. That means if "auto" changeover between heating and cooling is selected, the last heat pump operation has to have been in "cooling" mode or it will not dehumidify until the temp reaches the "cooling" setpoint and the hp switches to "cooling". If the last hp operation was "heating", the hp will sit idle in "heating" mode and no dehumidification occurs until the setpoint for "cooling" is reached.

    I see this programming logic as a minor irritant during the "shoulder season(s)" here in Florida, which is pretty much November through February. But it's still a great improvement over my old "on" or "off" 10 SEER 3.5Ton Rheem!

    For the time being, I've elected to set the control at 75* for cooling 24/7 and I have the heating set for 70* during the day, 64* from 11pm to 8am (cool sleeping is great), and 68* for "wake-up" time (8am-10am). For the last 2 weeks, it's occasionally been cold enough overnight for the heat to come on briefly at wake-up time, but the house will stay between 70* and 73* during the day so the A/C never comes on. After the occasional morning warm-up, there's no need for heat during the day either.

    When it gets to 72/73* in the house, I'd still like to see it dehumidify automatically, but it won't when the last hp event was heating. When I feel the humidity is getting a little high, I actually have to go to the control and switch it from "auto" to "cool" and then back to "auto" so it will dehumidify as needed and still be ready for heat in case it gets cold overnight. It appears this will be a daily task for awhile unless Carrier updates the software sometime in the future. (Sorry, Teddy Bear, but I still have no room nor interest in a whole house dehumidifier.)

  5. #18
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Savannah, Ga/H.H. Island, S.C.
    Posts
    1,405
    What are you setting your humidity level at? 50% is optimal. In the "winter" months, you shouldn't have much need for dehumidification.

    Maybe some of the other experts can chime in who are more keen on dehumification than I.

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Florida Space Coast
    Posts
    503
    Quote Originally Posted by Brent Ridley View Post
    What are you setting your humidity level at? 50% is optimal. In the "winter" months, you shouldn't have much need for dehumidification.

    Maybe some of the other experts can chime in who are more keen on dehumification than I.
    Humidity is set for the lowest level possible with the Infinity Control... Home = 45%, Away = 55%. This is Florida, 5 miles from the Atlantic Ocean as the crow flies across the Intracoastal Waterway, so humidity outside during the "winter" stays between 65% and 85% during the day and occasionally gets over 90% at night (foggy morning drive-time is common). Without some form of dehumidification, indoor humidity sometimes reaches 70%. Of course I never realized that until I started monitoring temps and humidity a few months ago!
    Last edited by Florida Joy; 01-06-2013 at 05:30 PM. Reason: corrected 5 miles from the ocean

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Florida Space Coast
    Posts
    503
    I forgot to mention that I recently adjusted the auto cooling setpoint from 75* to 72* for "sleep" time (11pm until 8am) to allow for additional dehumidification in the overnight hours. So before I go to bed around 11:30, I also have to make sure the hp is idle in the "cooling" mode so dehumidification will happen. This hasn't been a problem so far, since the indoor temp has never gone below my "sleep" time heating setpoing of 64*.

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Madison, WI/Cape Coral, FL
    Posts
    6,269
    Quote Originally Posted by Florida Joy View Post
    I've discovered the Infinity Control will only dehumidify (i.e., overcool by 3 degrees) when the system is "idle" in the "cooling" mode. That means if "auto" changeover between heating and cooling is selected, the last heat pump operation has to have been in "cooling" mode or it will not dehumidify until the temp reaches the "cooling" setpoint and the hp switches to "cooling". If the last hp operation was "heating", the hp will sit idle in "heating" mode and no dehumidification occurs until the setpoint for "cooling" is reached.

    I see this programming logic as a minor irritant during the "shoulder season(s)" here in Florida, which is pretty much November through February. But it's still a great improvement over my old "on" or "off" 10 SEER 3.5Ton Rheem!

    For the time being, I've elected to set the control at 75* for cooling 24/7 and I have the heating set for 70* during the day, 64* from 11pm to 8am (cool sleeping is great), and 68* for "wake-up" time (8am-10am). For the last 2 weeks, it's occasionally been cold enough overnight for the heat to come on briefly at wake-up time, but the house will stay between 70* and 73* during the day so the A/C never comes on. After the occasional morning warm-up, there's no need for heat during the day either.

    When it gets to 72/73* in the house, I'd still like to see it dehumidify automatically, but it won't when the last hp event was heating. When I feel the humidity is getting a little high, I actually have to go to the control and switch it from "auto" to "cool" and then back to "auto" so it will dehumidify as needed and still be ready for heat in case it gets cold overnight. It appears this will be a daily task for awhile unless Carrier updates the software sometime in the future. (Sorry, Teddy Bear, but I still have no room nor interest in a whole house dehumidifier.)
    Now let get an air change of fresh air in 4-5 hours! As the dew point of the outside air rises without a significant cooling load, the indoor humidity will rise. A small whole house ventilating dehumidifier is the icing on the cake.
    Keep posting the results. It is a learning expirence for all. As this progreses , it will be clear what needs to be done. Fresh filtered ventilation air and <50%RH is a must.
    Regards TB
    Bear Rules: Keep our home <50% RH summer, controls mites/mold and very comfortable.
    Provide 60-100 cfm of fresh air when occupied to purge indoor pollutants and keep window dry during cold weather. T-stat setup/setback +8 hrs. saves energy
    Use +Merv 10 air filter. -Don't forget the "Golden Rule"

  9. #22
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    SW FL
    Posts
    6,245
    Quote Originally Posted by teddy bear View Post
    Fresh filtered ventilation air and <50%RH is a must.
    Regards TB
    NOT.
    Designer Dan
    It's Not Rocket Science, But It is SCIENCE with "Some Art". ___ ___ K EEP I T S IMPLE & S INCERE

    Define the Building Envelope and Perform a Detailed Load Calc: It's ALL About Windows and Make-up Air Requirements. Know Your Equipment Capabilities

  10. #23
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Madison, WI/Cape Coral, FL
    Posts
    6,269
    Quote Originally Posted by dan sw fl View Post
    NOT.
    You are probably right. What does EPA, ASHRAE, American Medical ASS., and the Am Lung Ass. know? The build up of indoor pollutants are good for you? <50%RH is more comfortable than high indoor %RH? Mold and dust mites got to live to? Sorry I intruded.
    Regards TB
    Bear Rules: Keep our home <50% RH summer, controls mites/mold and very comfortable.
    Provide 60-100 cfm of fresh air when occupied to purge indoor pollutants and keep window dry during cold weather. T-stat setup/setback +8 hrs. saves energy
    Use +Merv 10 air filter. -Don't forget the "Golden Rule"

  11. #24
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Madison, WI/Cape Coral, FL
    Posts
    6,269
    Quote Originally Posted by Florida Joy View Post
    When it gets to 72/73* in the house, I'd still like to see it dehumidify automatically, but it won't when the last hp event was heating. When I feel the humidity is getting a little high, I actually have to go to the control and switch it from "auto" to "cool" and then back to "auto" so it will dehumidify as needed and still be ready for heat in case it gets cold overnight. It appears this will be a daily task for awhile unless Carrier updates the software sometime in the future. (Sorry, Teddy Bear, but I still have no room nor interest in a whole house dehumidifier.)
    A little more info on what could have been. I am acttaching data on a straight a/c controlling the temp and resulting %RH. The last day, the fresh air ventilation and dehumidifier was attivated. Two occupants and 80 cfm of fresh air with high outdoor dew points. The home is much more comfortable and fresher with the fresh air and dehumidifier.
    Hope a/c designers catch on to what is possible using simple a/c with a whole house ventilating dehumdifier. When this home is unoccupied, the a/c is turned off. The dehu is set at 50%RH with fresh air off. The results are a <50%RH dry home with $15 per month electric bill.
    A Ultra-Aire whole house ventilating dehu is no more than a VS a/c.
    Regards TB
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Bear Rules: Keep our home <50% RH summer, controls mites/mold and very comfortable.
    Provide 60-100 cfm of fresh air when occupied to purge indoor pollutants and keep window dry during cold weather. T-stat setup/setback +8 hrs. saves energy
    Use +Merv 10 air filter. -Don't forget the "Golden Rule"

  12. #25
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Florida Space Coast
    Posts
    503
    Quote Originally Posted by teddy bear View Post
    A little more info on what could have been. I am acttaching data on a straight a/c controlling the temp and resulting %RH. The last day, the fresh air ventilation and dehumidifier was attivated. Two occupants and 80 cfm of fresh air with high outdoor dew points. The home is much more comfortable and fresher with the fresh air and dehumidifier.
    Hope a/c designers catch on to what is possible using simple a/c with a whole house ventilating dehumdifier. When this home is unoccupied, the a/c is turned off. The dehu is set at 50%RH with fresh air off. The results are a <50%RH dry home with $15 per month electric bill.
    A Ultra-Aire whole house ventilating dehu is no more than a VS a/c.
    Regards TB
    At first glance (before I zoomed in for a closer look) the chart looked like a complicated, somewhat intimidating, quilt pattern! lol Anyway, very interesting.

    Is this data from your home in Cape Coral? Do you have pictures of the unit installed, including how it's attached to the ahu, how it vents to the outside, how it drains? From pix I've seen elsewhere, I don't see how such a unit could be installed near the ahu in my laundry room.... also wouldn't want to add another $15 a month to my electric bill.

    I also don't see a need for additional ventilation in my house. Two separate infiltrometer tests have shown that my existing ventilation exceeds the ASHRAE minimum, with duct leakage at less than 5%.

    So far, the Green Speed dehumidification has cost me almost nothing! I mean my kWh usage for the 2 months since installation is as low as it's EVER been... less than in ANY prior year duing months when NO A/C or heat was used (usually Dec & Feb). Total Dec electric bill averaged 18 kWh/day, Jan bill is on track for 19 kWh/day.

  13. #26
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Florida Space Coast
    Posts
    503
    Quote Originally Posted by teddy bear View Post
    <50%RH is a must.
    Regards TB
    While I agree that <50%RH would be ideal, and I absolutely expect my Green Speed to maintain that when running full blast, I discovered that the ASHRAE guidance recommends <65%RH according to the link below.

    https://www.ashrae.org/File%20Librar...-01-FAQ-92.pdf

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