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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
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    Windows 8 and Lonmaker Turbo Compatibility...

    We are under, like many of you, contract to provide laptop workstations on many contract jobs. With the new win8 OS being pushed, I must ask, how will/does Lonmaker play with win8? I have done a few google searches on this and came up with nothing...
    When it is said that BacNet is a better protocol than LonWorks, I die a little more inside.
    ~knottyjabe

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Edmonton, AB Canada
    Posts
    613
    Good day,

    I cannot answer your question directly, but I can tell you that Win 8 has a lot of issues running some programs and/or using older device drivers. Win 8 has changed their security model quite substantially and as a consequence Win 8 will simply not allow some programs to operate correctly and/or prevent some device drivers from loading. In Win 7 and prior the user was given a security message (dialog) warning them of potential issues, but the user could proceed if they wished. This option has been completely removed from Win 8 and so the user is under the mercy of Win 8's decision. There is a mechanism to disable this "strict" security policy, but it is only temporary and the system will revert back after the next reboot.

    Lastly, older and/or legacy programs that would run on Win 7 with XP mode are totally out of luck as their is currently no "XP Mode" add-on to Win 8. Hopefully the commercial industry will push back on Microsoft so as to "force" them to make some changes...

    Anyway, like I said this is just a heads up. Ensure you test, test, and test with Win 8 before you deploy.

    Cheers,

    Sam

  3. #3
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    Dec 2010
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    Was win8 designed with 14 yo girls in mind? How are we supposed to work with this? Some days I want to curl up with a half gallon of Sailor Jerry's...
    When it is said that BacNet is a better protocol than LonWorks, I die a little more inside.
    ~knottyjabe

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Edmonton, AB Canada
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    613
    Quote Originally Posted by knottyjabe View Post
    Was win8 designed with 14 yo girls in mind? How are we supposed to work with this? Some days I want to curl up with a half gallon of Sailor Jerry's...
    Good day,

    Well, you may wish to starting your drinking sooner than later... I gave you brief overview of things, but in reality there is more ... You, as a user with Admin priviledge, cannot create any type files within the "Program Files" directory... All a Admin user can so is create a Folder... that is it. Now, there may be a Win 8 configuration option somewhere, but I have not yet found it... maybe my rage was clouding my investigative nature ... You can, however, copy a file to the Program Files directory and when I do this, for some reason my older programs are unable to locate this file even though it is physically present. So, I am assuming that Win 8 is blocking the app from accessing the file...

    The User interface is also dramatically different and for most average users, some training will be required. It is not that hard to learn, but again it is so different that most average users will be unable to figure it out on their own. There is the more familiar "desktop" view, but navigating to it is, again, not overly intuitive... as is figuring out how to close an app... etc...

    For the business user, Win 8 will require a significant investment... new apps (if they can find them) and user training... for absolutely 0 productivity gain... It will be interesting to see how the business/commercial industries responds once Win 8 becomes a bit more main stream in their circles.

    Cheers,

    Sam

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
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    F-R-O-W-N-E-Y F-A-C-E . . .
    When it is said that BacNet is a better protocol than LonWorks, I die a little more inside.
    ~knottyjabe

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
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    I think the way around this is to buy a cheaper machine and a copy of win7 then re-install...
    When it is said that BacNet is a better protocol than LonWorks, I die a little more inside.
    ~knottyjabe

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    379
    Quote Originally Posted by s2sam View Post
    Good day,

    Well, you may wish to starting your drinking sooner than later... I gave you brief overview of things, but in reality there is more ... You, as a user with Admin priviledge, cannot create any type files within the "Program Files" directory... All a Admin user can so is create a Folder... that is it.
    That pretty much kills functionality for some programs. I know a simple setup with winscp and putty for Linux server administration you have to install putty in the program files which this would kill that. I'm sure someone will find a work around, but damn. Microsoft sure likes making everyone conform to their ways.

  8. #8
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    They saw Apple making all that money from individual users and decided they wanted that market too, therefore ignoring the needs of their current market, business. Corporate greed at it's finest...
    When it is said that BacNet is a better protocol than LonWorks, I die a little more inside.
    ~knottyjabe

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Edmonton, AB Canada
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    613
    Quote Originally Posted by knottyjabe View Post
    They saw Apple making all that money from individual users and decided they wanted that market too, therefore ignoring the needs of their current market, business. Corporate greed at it's finest...
    Good day,

    Speaking of greed... well... this new Win 8 security model in how it treats third party drivers repackages the term "greed" into something more like a "royalty" or "license" fee forced upon the application/hardware manufacturer. You see Win 8/Microsoft now demands/enforces that all device drivers be Security Certificate signed, etc before they can be loaded. Microsoft has only one approved Security Certificate vendor... Verisign which is owned by Symantec. Microsoft offers this certificate for $99, but this is just for the first year and thereafter it is $499 per year or a little less if you buy more years upfront. To me this just looks like a yearly license or royalty fee imposed by Microsoft to any firm that develops any hardware/software for Windows... despite already paying $$$ for their developer tools, etc. There may be more additional costs too (i.e. Microsoft Certified), but I have not investigated them in their entirety. Getting caught up in all this is the large number of free or inexpensive software that is currently available that will be unusable in Win 8... If these people or firms need to pay $$$ to simple "certify" their software, I can see free/low-cost software disappearing...

    Anyway, I do hope that enough high profile computer users push back on Microsoft in order to force them to make changes. Thankfully Win 7 is still around and will be for several more years and so one is not yet "forced" to migrate to Win 8 just yet...

    Cheers,

    Sam

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    USA
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    1,763
    That's nice. Verisign is one of the most expensive cert issuers out there.

    I thought the metrosexual interface was going to be the most annoying ‘feature’, looks like that's just the tip of the ice berg.

    Does anyone know if you can upgrade the Intel Win8 based tablets to Win7.
    Propagating the formula. http://www.noagendashow.com/

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    379
    Windoze 8 success will prove that the general public are getting dumber. 14 year old girls on twitter and fanboys will rave about it while professionals that use computers as tools will struggle to do their job.

  12. #12
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    Dec 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by orion242 View Post
    That's nice. Verisign is one of the most expensive cert issuers out there.

    I thought the metrosexual interface was going to be the most annoying ‘feature’, looks like that's just the tip of the ice berg.

    Does anyone know if you can upgrade the Intel Win8 based tablets to Win7.
    Pretty sad when we have to use the term "upgrade" to reference a move to an earlier version. But really, we all saw this when Bill in his infinite wisdom went from XP to vista...
    When it is said that BacNet is a better protocol than LonWorks, I die a little more inside.
    ~knottyjabe

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Hampton Roads, Virginia
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    1,631
    Time to turn the clock back more than a decade, Microsoft needs to create two different operating systems, one consumer based, and one for professional users, remember windows 95 and Windows NT. If Microsoft carry on the path they are on, someone will step in and create a new operating system for professional use, or professional application programs will move to Unix based operating systems.

    Kevin
    "There are 10 types of people in the world.. those who understand binary, and those who don't."

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