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  1. #157
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    Opportunity is the answer. Prior to WW2, the US Military ranked 17th in terms of strength. We would not need to spend the money we do if we got out of the ME. So which is it. Strong military and the responsibility that goes with it. Or isolation and a weak military?

  2. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by newoldtech View Post
    I and most, certainly believed and still believe that we had to deal with afghanistan/Al-qaeda after 9/11. We could not let them just operate business as usual after what they did to us. And I think most Americans do feel safer now that Al-qaeda has been seriously marginalized and forced far underground. We still need to be vigilant as there are many that wish us harm. As far as Iraq goes, to me that was a huge mistake. And thats the main reason Bush to this day is usually far out of sight.

    FWIW, I know from many of your posts you beieve that 9/11 was at least possibly an inside job. Personally I'm not looking to debate that.
    Actually at the time Al-Qaeda did not care much of what happened outside of Afghanistan and they had no part in the attack on the USA. They just made the mistake of allowing a friend with the same religious beliefs to remain in their country. And when they realized how serious the U.S. was in getting their buddy they offered him up but the offer was not accepted, but that is water under the bridge. So is when Iran wanted to have better relations with the U.S. also but was rebuffed. Missed opportunities that may have changed the world we live in, might have been better, might have gotten worse. Who knows?
    Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. —Mark Twain

  3. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by acmanko View Post
    Opportunity is the answer. Prior to WW2, the US Military ranked 17th in terms of strength. We would not need to spend the money we do if we got out of the ME. So which is it. Strong military and the responsibility that goes with it. Or isolation and a weak military?
    How about a line from one of your presidential candidates?

    He's the only candidate promising to cut the federal budget -- actually cut it, not just slow its growth -- in his first year in office.

    Not symbolically, either. He plans to cut $1.4 trillion in government spending. And it won't be as hard as you think. Start with the Pentagon, where Johnson has already made a list of cuts that amount to 43 per cent of the budget.

    "You know how many years that rolls back our defence spending?" Johnson asks. "All the way to 2003. That's not the end of the world. I think we can live safely within the military security we had in 2003."
    http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/opi...163000556.html
    Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. —Mark Twain

  4. #160
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    How about lets get off the intellectual joke and come back down to reality:

    When someone attacks you; you have two choices: Respond or be attacked again. We responded (not anywhere strongly enough IMO). What we did was take the war to THEIR soil, rather than fight it on OUR soil. Believe me; that is ALWAYS better... NO exceptions.

    Remember WW2... we fought to WIN... something we have not done since then.
    This crap of having rules of engagement... screw them! If we literally turned Afganistan into a glass sheet... the rest of the world would fuss and scream all day (and night) long... but how many of them would take on the largest military in the world? NONE... and you can take that to the bank. Why? Because that largest army destroyed their enemy. Simple.

    The reason Iraq and Afgan are a waste is NOT because we cannot win... it is because the politicians do not want to win... they have other agenda's. We COULD win, and win decisively if we chose to... Why we do not is still a mystery to me (and to lots of others).
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Galatians 2:20-21; Colossians 1: 21-22 & 26-27; 3:1-4; Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service.

  5. #161
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    We could roll defense spending back to the Clinton years and still be spending more than the rest of the world combined

  6. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    How about lets get off the intellectual joke and come back down to reality:

    When someone attacks you; you have two choices: Respond or be attacked again. We responded (not anywhere strongly enough IMO). What we did was take the war to THEIR soil, rather than fight it on OUR soil. Believe me; that is ALWAYS better... NO exceptions.

    Remember WW2... we fought to WIN... something we have not done since then.
    This crap of having rules of engagement... screw them! If we literally turned Afganistan into a glass sheet... the rest of the world would fuss and scream all day (and night) long... but how many of them would take on the largest military in the world? NONE... and you can take that to the bank. Why? Because that largest army destroyed their enemy. Simple.

    The reason Iraq and Afgan are a waste is NOT because we cannot win... it is because the politicians do not want to win... they have other agenda's. We COULD win, and win decisively if we chose to... Why we do not is still a mystery to me (and to lots of others).
    So who attacked you? A bunch of fanatics that were allowed to squat on some dusty side of a mountain. No government of a country attacked you. Afghanistan did not attack you, Iraq did not attack you.

    You think that you can keep yourself safe by leveling countries? You seem to have no clue. The attacks on you are coming from ideologically driven people, not countries. And their attacks will not be on the battlefield but on your infrastructure which is open for the picking. If you do a scorched earth war as you suggest you will just mobilize people to get serious about messing about on your home turf.
    Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. —Mark Twain

  7. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    it is because the politicians do not want to win...
    Is your definition of “winning” killing every man, woman and child in Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia and Syria? If your answer is yes then I could suggest a simpler solution by doing the same to just one country over there.

  8. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post
    Is your definition of “winning” killing every man, woman and child in Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia and Syria? If your answer is yes then I could suggest a simpler solution by doing the same to just one country over there.
    I like this logic! That one country you're talking about is always whining as if they're some poor, innocent, defenseless victim when they are the largest terrorist organization in the world. They are able to secure financial and military support from western nations with complicity from the people of those nations because their friends in the media are always playing the violins and lamenting their unfortunate plight.
    "There is no greater inequality than the equal treatment of unequals."

    -Thomas Jefferson

  9. #165
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    I seem to remember this story... do not have a link:

    There are over 1 Billion muslims in the world... yet the population of Israel is something like 15 Million. That means for every Jew, there are something like 67,000 muslims... yet:

    One can count on their hands the earth changing accomplishments of the entire muslim race... yet it takes pages to count the similar accomplishments of Jews...

    So which one do you think is expendable and which one is better to stay close to?
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Galatians 2:20-21; Colossians 1: 21-22 & 26-27; 3:1-4; Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service.

  10. #166
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    Both are human. Neither is expendable. Poor choice of words, and there are way more than 15 million Jews in the world

  11. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post

    So which one do you think is expendable and which one is better to stay close to?
    Masad most likely had prior knowledge of 911 but did not tell us because they (Israel) would greatly benefit from it. Is that who you want to “stay close to?” But let anyone investigate the story or even tell the American public about it and they will be crushed like a bug.

  12. #168
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    Agreed.

  13. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    I seem to remember this story... do not have a link:

    There are over 1 Billion muslims in the world... yet the population of Israel is something like 15 Million. That means for every Jew, there are something like 67,000 muslims... yet:

    One can count on their hands the earth changing accomplishments of the entire muslim race... yet it takes pages to count the similar accomplishments of Jews...

    So which one do you think is expendable and which one is better to stay close to?
    First of all, Muslims are not a race of people. Jews aren't either, for that matter. Both are just ideologies. Someone born in Israel is not automatically a jew. They are an Israeli. An Israeli can be a christian, muslim, buddhist, or atheist, or whatever. I'm just talking about a nation and it's government. The problem is not with the inhabitants of this nation, it's with the notion that they are beyond reproach and accountability for their actions because of their permanent victim-status.
    "There is no greater inequality than the equal treatment of unequals."

    -Thomas Jefferson

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