BacStage and BAC-7001
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  1. #1
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    Question BacStage and BAC-7001

    I am currently in the process of programming about 100 VAV (M# BAC-7001) using BacStage and then I will be importing them into AX. I go through about 40 VAVs and then my device list stopped responding. I rediscovered the system and every VAV came up with a "READ ERROR" and now I can't get into any of the controllers. I tried creating a new system and it rapidly brings up the 40 or so programmed VAVs but with the "READ ERROR". I have been looking for the file to delete the saved system or some how create a new system where its not going to bring up the controllers from the computers memory but haven't had any success. Any advice?

    Also, does anyone have an explanation of the parameters for this controller and how to program it. I know how to program what I need (min and max flow, flow coeff, setpoints) but would like some expanded literature, such as how it calibrates the flow sensor, how the loops calculate, etc.

    I have had very little success with trying to deal with KMC and my supplier is learning at the same pace as me, therefore I have no quick tech support to bounce questions off.

  2. #2
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    Jul 2008
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    Ive found in the past that the BacStage comms server locks up occasionally.
    For a while there I kept running into similar problems and had to make a new system one after the other...not sure what I was doing wrong.
    The system keeps a txt file somewhere too with the list of nodes etc.
    Try a restart and hunt out the txt/cfg file....and kill
    1 + 1 = 3 ( *** for very large values of 1)

    ...everybody wants a box of chocolates and long stemmed rose

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by MatrixTransform View Post
    The system keeps a txt file somewhere too with the list of nodes etc.
    Try a restart and hunt out the txt/cfg file....and kill
    Any clue where this file might be located or what it might be called?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by HuNGRYTeCH View Post
    Any clue where this file might be located or what it might be called?
    ...C:\Users\All Users\KMC Controls\BACstage

    Devices.txt etc ...
    1 + 1 = 3 ( *** for very large values of 1)

    ...everybody wants a box of chocolates and long stemmed rose

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
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    Northern NY
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    Application Guide

    Attached is the application Guide for the VAV controllers from KMC. If they have the current load they work very well except sometimes the calculated damper position gets a bit wacky. Also the air flow sensor does not have any calibration, it is a hot wire type sensor, not differential pressure. As far as balancing calibration you just set the K factor as provided by the balancer at full cooling flow.

    In BACstage I have never had an issue where I needed to create a new system unless I wanted to make new site. If you lose communication and get "READ ERROR" it is because there is a problem with your BACnet network. It's possible windows or your hockey puck is an issue, but also remember you need a repeater every 32 electrical loads on the wire. I often use BACstage to connect directly or pass through a JACE to networks with 70+ devices and if the network is healthy you will have no issues.

    -Jeremy
    Attached Images Attached Images

  6. #6
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    Jeremy, thanks for the app guide. That is very helpful. I still need to figure out what my network issue is but atleast Im making progress.

    Quote Originally Posted by MatrixTransform View Post
    ...C:\Users\All Users\KMC Controls\BACstage

    Devices.txt etc ...
    I found it, in a hidden folder. It was in C:\PrgoramaData\KMC Controls\BACstage

    What a pain and it didn't solve my problem...

  7. #7
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    Mate, at the risk of sounding like bacnet-basher I think you have MSTP comms issues...go back to basics. Wire type, distance, noise...hmm...duplicate node addresses!!

    Ive found BacStage works pretty well 99% of the time. I have seen a 'system' in Bacstage keep remnants of old device discoveries before too. Its kind of annoying when it does because it makes discoveries take a long time. Thats why I sometimes destroy those entries in the txt file.

    you can add more than one 'system' too...when things go awry, just delete the old one or add a new one.

    That being said ... flakey MSTP will always make Bacstage misbehave...especially duplicate Mac Addresses.
    1 + 1 = 3 ( *** for very large values of 1)

    ...everybody wants a box of chocolates and long stemmed rose

  8. #8
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    I do not disagree with you. I believe I have a comm issue too. I have spent a lot of time on the software side and not found any issues there. I am currently in the process of isolating sections of the network and testing them. We will see what I come up with but I think I either have a controller that is spewing jibberish over my com (because I see data traveling in hyperterminal) or there is some wiring issue. We will see. I am no closer to a solution yet though.

  9. #9
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    Heres my update...
    I seperated my system into half to narrow down the problem. 1/2 communicated the other 1/2 didn't. I kept doing this until I narrowed it down to one suite with 6 VAVs. I inspected the wiring, the network isolations bulbs, and the networks switches. All appeared to be in order. I disconnected the LAN for these six and connected each one individually and checked the communication after each connection. I got to the last box, hooked up the wires, and everything was good. I could communicate to the whole system...
    So I am guessing I had a wiring issues, maybe a stray strand of wire was crossing the network or something.

    A lot of headache for a little problem, but its up and working!

  10. #10
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    An oscilloscope will show you if your network has physical issues, also if your system can display UART errors this could indicate physical wiring issues (Dam BACnet to H*ll, why couldn't they get these installers under control!).

    kontrol out
    "Open is as open does." - Forrest Gump
    "Can't we all just get a Lon?" - Garry Jack
    "BACnet: integration or interrogation?" - The Janitor
    "Open protocols? You can't handle open protocols!" - Nathan R. Jessup
    “What’s that? Aaa… open protocols? Don’t talk about…. open protocols? Are you kidding me? Open protocols? I just hope we can hardwire an interface!” - Jim Mora http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7fjDS0jKiE

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by kontrolphreak View Post
    ... Dam BACnet to H*ll, why couldn't they get these installers under control!
    LOL...the truth of it is that 95% of problems are due to the physical media.

    in Building Automation we need to be much more careful.
    1 + 1 = 3 ( *** for very large values of 1)

    ...everybody wants a box of chocolates and long stemmed rose

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