High side wall register question

[mikem201]

Can someone please tell me when its appropriate to use high side wall registers rather than low side wall, baseboard, floor or ceiling registers?

[jtrammel]

AC climate ceiling or high sidewall, heating climate floor or low sidewall. It really depends on the layout of the structure which you would use, sidewall supply's are not used much anymore. It's mainly floor or ceiling now depending on the equipment being in the attic/closet or crawl/basement.

[D-apostrophe]

I agree with jtrammel. Cost and construction considerations prevent ideal register placement, so we go by equipment location. That said, we just did a house with multiple concealed duct mini-splits and we ducted through the high walls because all of the ceiling were vaulted. Cools and heats great. Another job was done with high side wall registers because the ceiling had architectural details we did not want to disrupt visually. It's less about placement, more about throw and circulation.

Oh yeah, and its a heck of a lot easier to cut in a ceiling reg than a side wall. (top plates cut, sheetrock to patch)

[mikem201]

I agree with jtrammel. Cost and construction considerations prevent ideal register placement, so we go by equipment location. That said, we just did a house with multiple concealed duct mini-splits and we ducted through the high walls because all of the ceiling were vaulted. Cools and heats great. Another job was done with high side wall registers because the ceiling had architectural details we did not want to disrupt visually. It's less about placement, more about throw and circulation.

Oh yeah, and its a heck of a lot easier to cut in a ceiling reg than a side wall. (top plates cut, sheetrock to patch)

When you have to run heat registers/returns to a second floor do you run a wall duct from furnace located, i.e. basement and basically cut part of top and bottom wall plates then run a 90 from wall cavity into joist bay and up into floor? If your doing it this way for floor registers on second floor won't cutting into top/bottom plates cause structure concern? To get floor registers into second floor there really is no other options, correct?

[D-apostrophe]

When you have to run heat registers/returns to a second floor do you run a wall duct from furnace located, i.e. basement and basically cut part of top and bottom wall plates then run a 90 from wall cavity into joist bay and up into floor? If your doing it this way for floor registers on second floor won't cutting into top/bottom plates cause structure concern? To get floor registers into second floor there really is no other options, correct?

I was previously referring to an AHU in the attic using ceiling registers and an AHU in the basement using floor. If you are traveling from basement to second floor, then I would use wall registers. Why try to turn inside the floor? If for heat, run low supplies on a stack head. A low return will pull cold air off the floor and the rising warm air downward, creating circulation.

I hope this helps.

[mikem201]

I was previously referring to an AHU in the attic using ceiling registers and an AHU in the basement using floor. If you are traveling from basement to second floor, then I would use wall registers. Why try to turn inside the floor? If for heat, run low supplies on a stack head. A low return will pull cold air off the floor and the rising warm air downward, creating circulation.

I hope this helps.

But don't you want at least a few floor registers by any windows in the 2nd floor? That is the reason I said to turn from the wall cavity into a joist space and up into the sub floor. Also, to get low side wall registers your still going to have to cut into wall plates. Is that safe to do?

[butternut]

I really thought about this and to be honest, I cant remember a situation where I ever did or would have done this. It generally comes down to price of the job and it's always easier to lose some closet space (to run a trunk into the attic) than to start doing what you are talking about. Any time I couldn't find some chase from basement to attic I would either walk away or offer to build a Hydro air in the attic, affording the home a second zone for source of heat/air conditioning.

[mikem201]

I really thought about this and to be honest, I cant remember a situation where I ever did or would have done this. It generally comes down to price of the job and it's always easier to lose some closet space (to run a trunk into the attic) than to start doing what you are talking about. Any time I couldn't find some chase from basement to attic I would either walk away or offer to build a Hydro air in the attic, affording the home a second zone for source of heat/air conditioning.

So, your saying it would be easier to run a branch duct up to the attic and then down to create a ceiling register? Also, in regards to heat pumps, they are basically the reverse flow of refrigerant compared to an a/c, correct? The evaporator coil on the outside of the house to absorb heat from outside and transferring it to an inside condensing unit which extracts the heat to the duct work and thus turning from a vapor back to a liquid. With a heat pump do you use your existing evaporator that inside in the house on the furnace as the condensor coil or do you need a separate condensor inside the house as well as a separate evaporator coil on the outside of the house?

[butternut]

So, your saying it would be easier to run a branch duct up to the attic and then down to create a ceiling register?

Yes, if you can get the proper CFM required for the application. Homes I have done this in generally require a 14" round but in those cases where I couldn't do it with that I would use rectangular duct and size to the requirement. You are also restricted by the give and take with the customer. I have had people tell me that I can have the whole closet if I need it and others have had to have their wrists twisted to be able to do the job this way.
You also have to focus on high insulation rates on the ducting in the attic. I typically would build a box, insulate it with the take offs required and then flex it to the 3/1 registers that I used. This all has to be sized correctly and you cant be a hack about it.
Keep in mind that on a two story house you are talking about having two closets (one under the other) or similar dead zones. Not always possible.

Also, in regards to heat pumps, they are basically the reverse flow of refrigerant compared to an a/c, correct? The evaporator coil on the outside of the house to absorb heat from outside and transferring it to an inside condensing unit which extracts the heat to the duct work and thus turning from a vapor back to a liquid. With a heat pump do you use your existing evaporator that inside in the house on the furnace as the condensor coil or do you need a separate condensor inside the house as well as a separate evaporator coil on the outside of the house?

When I put a separate air handler in the attic it was because I was adding a unit.

[mikem201]

Yes, if you can get the proper CFM required for the application. Homes I have done this in generally require a 14" round but in those cases where I couldn't do it with that I would use rectangular duct and size to the requirement. You are also restricted by the give and take with the customer. I have had people tell me that I can have the whole closet if I need it and others have had to have their wrists twisted to be able to do the job this way.
You also have to focus on high insulation rates on the ducting in the attic. I typically would build a box, insulate it with the take offs required and then flex it to the 3/1 registers that I used. This all has to be sized correctly and you cant be a hack about it.
Keep in mind that on a two story house you are talking about having two closets (one under the other) or similar dead zones. Not always possible.



When I put a separate air handler in the attic it was because I was adding a unit.

Why do you go through the closet and by box do you mean bulkhead? Did you get my question about heat pumps?

[jtrammel]

Why do you go through the closet and by box do you mean bulkhead? Did you get my question about heat pumps?

You could do it in the corner or for that matter in the middle of the room and frame and Sheetrock around the duct creating a bulkhead or fake column, usually best to keep it in the closet where its out of sight though. A heat pump uses the same indoor and outdoor coils and fans it just reverses the flow of refrigerant with a valve in the outdoor unit and there is a metering device with some type of bypass on both the indoor and outdoor units.

[butternut]

Good point and I did this once but the guy had money to no end and had a custom built corner cabinet placed around it floor to ceiling. Looked trick but wow the expense. Generally if I have to do something like that I have to make it symmetrical to keep the look of the area and that means two corners on the same wall. doing that you could do two runs though... as long as the air flow can be maintained.

You could do it in the corner or for that matter in the middle of the room and frame and Sheetrock around the duct creating a bulkhead or fake column, usually best to keep it in the closet where its out of sight though. A heat pump uses the same indoor and outdoor coils and fans it just reverses the flow of refrigerant with a valve in the outdoor unit and there is a metering device with some type of bypass on both the indoor and outdoor units.

[butternut]

Why do you go through the closet and by box do you mean bulkhead? Did you get my question about heat pumps?

I mean a distribution box in the attic. The main run ties into the box and then the supply runs to the rooms come off that box. construction of the distribution box is the same as if it were tied to an air handler with the air handler being replaced by the trunk line.
I go through closets because they typically have the area I need and they always seem to line up from floor to floor. makes it real easy when that is the case.
Once the ducting is in, a new back wall can easily be put back in to cover and keep the clean look of a finished closet.