Nope
edit..I meant Is Trane that much "better"? Sorry for the bad grammar.
Hi all,
I am new here and getting ready to replace our 20+year heat pump unit and am currently receiving proposals. I live in Northern VA (suburb of DC). So far, I've received 2 quotes and waiting on a couple more. One is for a Trane system, the other Carrier. I won't get into specific pricing since that's not allowed but I am just curious as to why Trane's are so much more expensive?
I am replacing a 2.5 ton unit, not going to the super high end because of budget, but don't want bottom of the barrel as well since we plan to be in our house for a good 8 to 10 more years.
For the same SEER of 13, the Trane is over $ more than the Carrier. For the same price of a SEER 13 Trane, I can get a SEER 15 Carrier.
I know Trane is more expensive and has a good reputation. In fact, the Trane installer even prefaced the proposal with a "you know, Trane is going to be more expensive".
My question is...is Trane that much better? I've read different things here and there but I didn't gather (in my opinion) that Trane is THAT much better. Am I being too critical of Trane?
Thanks in advance.
Last edited by beenthere; 10-31-2012 at 06:03 AM. Reason: price difference
Nope
it was working.... played with it.... now its broke.... whats the going hourly rate for HVAC repair
Nope, they just have a large marketing/advertising budget that they have to pay for so it costs more generally. It's not that hard to stop a Trane.
Focus more on installing company's background as opposed to Carrier or Trane's
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Agreed. Focus on finding the best company to do the work. It's not the Trane equipment cost alone that's making the estimates that much more expensive. Yes, Trane advertises, as do all major brands. Make sure you're comparing like estimates in terms of products and scope of work. If you provide more details of the estimates you received (model numbers, what's included, etc.), you may get better advice.
No one can here can give a good answer to that question. none of us know how much work each contractor is going to do. The Trane contractor may be making changes that the carrier contractor isn't.
PS: Pricing questions and discussions aren't allowed here.
Model #s?
Hi all,
Thanks for all of the replies. I appreciate all of your opinions. I apologize for adding the actual price difference in my initial post. I was careful to avoid actual prices of products and wasn't aware that the difference would constitute the same. Thank you for correcting.
As for model #'s, they are as follows:
(All trane options to include a digital stat but I don't have actual model #'s, will have to ask)
Trane option 1:
SEER 13
XB Series 4TWB3030C100A
Hyperian XR Series 4 TAM4A0A30S215B
Price: $$
Trane option 2:
SEER 15
XB Series 4TWR5030G1000A
Hyperian XR Series 4 TAM4A0A30S215B (same as above)
Price: $$$
Carrier option 1:
SEER 13
Comfort series 25HCB330
Air handler FB4CNF030
TC-HNP stat
2 year labor warranty in addition to standard manufacturer warranty
Price: $
Carrier option 2:
SEER 15
Performance series 25HCC530
Air handler FV4CNF002
TC-php stat, programmable
2 year labor warranty in addition to standard manufacturer warranty
Price: $$
All also got a # for the Infinity series but my existing ducts will not allow a 2 stage so the extra price would be for "comfort", which is not justifiable to me.
All qoutes for for a 2.5 ton unit, 10htr peak air handler, use existing line set, flush and drain, condensate drain (but trane says E-Z trap), pump ups.
Any thoughts? Seems to be the carrier option 2 is a no brainer compared to either of the tranes.
I do have a few other quotes coming in but like i said, this question is more related to whether or not the Trane premium is worth considering.
Thank you in advance!
jcny
What is your location?
Depending on location, I would not purchase a new HP system that did not have electronic demand defrost.
Trane has this feature, most other brands don't.
EDD eliminates/reduces nuisance, unnecessary, and expensive defrost calls over the less expensive time/temp method that most HP systems have.
Something to consider especially in a colder climate with all electric heat.
Sorry, I see now you are in Northern Va and yes I would want EDD for that location.
IMO
Tigerdunes, thanks for your comment.
I've read about EDD and kind of have an understanding of what it does and why it's preferred. The question again goes back to whether or not the upfront costs can justify the monthly savings during the winter time. In our climate, we won't have too many months that go below that certain temperature. Since a limited number of brands have EDD, for example, Trane, is the premium worth it, sort of like my first question.
I know there are other, maybe slightly more competitive companies, that make units w/ EDD standard so I hope to get some proposals from them.
Is the benefit of EDD also related to maintenance?
Thanks.
Are there space constraints where the air handler will be installed? The TAM4 isn't the best match with the XR15 -- only gets you 14 SEER, 12 EER, and 8 HSPF. To make the estimates comparable the XR15 should be paired with the TAM7 variable speed air handler which would yield up to 16 SEER, 13 EER, and 9 HSPF. The Carrier 15 SEER estimate includes a variable speed air handler (FV4), but the FV4CNF005 provides higher efficiency in both heating and cooling. But the 002 size has a considerably smaller footprint, hence my assumption that there may be space constraints.
Brand to brand not much difference when comparing comparable equipment, IMO. If your budget dictates mid range bells and whistles it don't much matter what brand you go with. The installation is where you need to focus your attention. A great machine installed half a$$ is a piece of junk. The work is what will make or break your investment. Choose wisely. Good luck.
jcny
This forum does not like to talk about one brand being better than another.
I will say this. I think Trane makes quality heat pumps and there is alot of junk in the residential HP marketplace.
I see nothing wrong with the brands you were quoted except that the dealers have failed to give you the best matching air handler both model and size. The reason should be explored as mentioned by Ryan.
You will not get the wear and tear on your reversing valve with EDD as opposed to the less expensive and inefficient time/temp method of defrosting.
IMO
Thanks again for all of your comments. I am getting extremely educated on this subject and I appreciate it.
In response to Ryan, yes, there are constraints for the air handler in the width direction, not height. This may be the reason why the Carrier proposal came back w/ that particular air handler.
And also, for the TAM4, I was quote for the XB series, not XR. So no variable there though I think I'd like to have a variable speed air handler.
Thanks for the EDD comments, will take note.
why not get bids for american standard?
(trane's 'sister' company)
you might also consiter that the 13 SEER is minimum efficiency allowed.
best of luck.
The cure of the part should not be attempted without the cure of the whole. ~Plato
It looks like they quoted you the TAM4 air handler in both your XB13 and XR15 quote. For the XR15, to get the better efficiency ratings that you pay for, you'll need to pair it with the GAM5 (high efficiency motor) or TAM7 (variable speed motor). The TAM4A0A30S21SB in your initial quotes is 17-1/2" wide, and the FV4CNF002 is 17-5/8" wide. I'm not sure of how much space you have to work with, but here are some possible matchups (with XR15 model 4TWR5030G1000A outdoor unit) and their respective widths:
TAM7A0B30H21SB (21-5/16" wide): 12.5 EER, 15 SEER, 9 HSPF
TAM7A0C36H31SB (23-1/2" wide): 13 EER, 16 SEER, 9 HSPF
GAM5A0B30M21SA (21-1/4" wide): 12.5 EER, 15 SEER, 8.5 HSPF
For comparison, here are the Carrier ratings for the 25HCC530 with FV4CNF002: 12.5 EER, 15 SEER, 8.5 HSPF.
Have a company that installs American Standard coming tomorrow. I am eager to see what that holds.
I know SEER 13 is the lowest, which is why I was shocked at how expensive (in my opinion), the Trane quote was for the basic SEER. I'd like to be at 15 considering my budget.
Will report back. Thanks.
My question is ... Have you included American Standard and Bryant in your price compari$on$?
These brands are essentially Trane and Carrier.
http://www.americanstandardair.com/P...HP03;HP04;HP05
http://www.bryant.com/products/heatp...mparison.shtml
Designer Dan __ It's Not Rocket Science, But It is SCIENCE with Some Art. _ _ KEEP IT SIMPLE & SINCERE ___ __ www.mysimplifiedhvac.com ___ __ Define the Building Envelope & Perform a Detailed Load Calc: It's ALL About Windows & Make-up Air Requirements. Know Your Equipment Capabilities
Station: Camp Springs / Andrews Air Force Base, MD, US (76.87W,38.81N)
Station ID: KADW
Month starting HDD _______________ CDD
11/1/2011 ___ 440 … 11.9% ______ 6 …. 0.4%
12/1/2011 ___ 674 … 18.3% ______ 0 …. 0.0%
1/1/2012 ___ 806 … 21.8% ______ 0 …. 0.0%
2/1/2012 ___ 678 … 18.4% ______ 0 …. 0.0%
3/1/2012 ___ 363 … 9.8% ______ 31 …. 2.0%
4/1/2012 ___ 314 … 8.5% ______ 40 …. 2.5%
5/1/2012 _____ 56 … 1.5% ______ 161 …. 10.2%
6/1/2012 _____ 30 … 0.8% ______ 278 …. 17.7%
7/1/2012 _____ 0 … 0.0% ______ 486 …. 30.9%
8/1/2012 _____ 1 … 0.0% ______ 351 …. 22.3%
9/1/2012 _____ 71 … 1.9% ______ 175 …. 11.1%
10/1/2012 ___ 256 … 6.9% ______ 45 …. 2.9%
____________ 3,689 ___________ 1,573
Energy Costs
Heating might be ~ 450 therms per year at 92% efficiency
at $1.20/ therm N.Gas $540
Heat pump at average COP of 3.0 /HSPF of ~ 10 and $0.14 /kW = $ 580/ yr
with HSPF of 9 annual heating would be ~ $ 650.
Cooling Cost = Ball park
1,000 operating hours * $ 0.14 / kw * 2.65 kw/ 2.5 tons = $370/ year
14 SEER should be ~1.05+ kw/ ton
Operating hours might 111 days [nearly 4 months] for 9 hours a day if thermostat is set > 75'F
Designer Dan __ It's Not Rocket Science, But It is SCIENCE with Some Art. _ _ KEEP IT SIMPLE & SINCERE ___ __ www.mysimplifiedhvac.com ___ __ Define the Building Envelope & Perform a Detailed Load Calc: It's ALL About Windows & Make-up Air Requirements. Know Your Equipment Capabilities