I have two quotes that are roughly the same for a Goodman 70k BTU 95% efficency and a Bryant 95t 80K 96.2% efficency. I am leaning towards the Goodman because the company installing guarentees their work and will cover any fixes if need be. The company with the Bryant requires you to purchace an extented warranty that covers labor, but the parts are covered by the manufacturer warranty.
Also, my house is about 2500 sq ft, built in 1991, so i think the isulation is pretty sound. Its two stories and a half basement, but the upper level is smalle than the lower, so not a traditional two story. There is alot of wasted space in my house- tall ceilings, open foyer, totally nonfunctional windows and walls that give the "illusion" of being huge house... I'm just saying this becasue neither one of the contrators did a load estimation, or J count, or whatever... so i am concerned if the size is going to be adequete because the current furnace is a 110K 70% efficency. This is my first winter in this place, so I have no idea how well the old one worked...
I really dont know which of the two is going to be my better bet, but from my tiny little slice of HVAC knowledge it seems that an oversized furnace is worse than an undersized?, becuase it will keep going on/off/on/off etc etc. And a too small furnace would likely have trouble keeping up with demand only on the very coldest of days?
Any advice, comments, suggestions and/or corrections to my thought process are welcomed! Unfortunately I am under pressure to make a choice because my current furance is not functioning at all.. and I really have nooo clue about any of this stuff.
Thanks in advance
Model # of the Goodman? Just what exactly is the Goodman warranty? Unless an extended warranty is purchased, a dealer is responsible for labor and usually is 1 year. What is that dealer doing differently or did he bundle in a Goodcare policy?
The Bryant is a true 2 stage furnace capable of using a 2 stage thermostat. It has a high efficiency fixed speed blower motor. Goodman has models above it and below it but not the same.
The Goodman model# is GMH950704. Im not sure if he called it a goodcare policy, but the deal covers the furnace and also one year or 4 other appiances of my choice. I believe it is their own service plan, and not a part of some other network... but I dont really know. So would the dealerof the Bryant be responsible for labor for the first year also? Becuase I read it as i needed to purchace additional coverage for labor, even if in the first year. Which, honestly, I think that sucks. So if they do shotty work, I have no recourse unless I buy an additional policy?
I believe the tech said that if they install it, they are "married" to it for 10 years, and heat exchanger for 99 years. And those are transferable as well. The extended warranty thing that covers my other appliances is only a promotion for one year. If i wanted to keep that coverage it would cost $20 a month.
Of course, I do not have any of this in writing, though.....
Last edited by SharonMM; 10-29-2012 at 06:15 PM.
Reason: additional info
This is only marginal difference between 110K 70% ( 77,000 BTU/Hr output) and 80k at 96% (77,900 BTU/hr output).
Originally Posted by SharonMM
The performance is ESSENTIALLY EQUAL .!..!!
Is your house divided something like 1,500 S.F. First Floor and 1,000 Square Foot second floor.
U 0.4 windows / 350 square feet Total Window area.
If so, I would guess 77,000 BTU/Hr might be adequate to -10'F. [ Rough Calculation to be performed ]
The GMH is a 2 stage that uses a timer to go to high. You can't control it with a thermostat which knows how much heat is needed. Many of us feel that is a big disadvantage. Also does not have the high efficiency blower motor which saves considerably on electrical costs year round. So it is a ways below the Bryant in price and performance.
I would be very leery of in house warranties. You are locked in with them and they can change policies at any time. Or change hands. Or close. Or you could get pissed off and leave them and your warranty. With a factory extended labor policy, any dealer of that brand will cover it and you know the warranty will be honored.
The "home warranties" I've seen require a upfront, $75.00 (minimum) diagnostic fee.
Then, rather than fix the appliance, they talk you into a new one. It can be a con. I'm not saying that they are all crooked, but the ones around here are. When the owner is okay with one "little" lie, there is no end to what they won't do.
Keep in mind most furnaces are oversized considerably to start with. I don't think there is a single tech on this forum who has EVER run into an undersized gas furnace. Another thing to consider is the GAS BILL. A large furnace gobbles up quite a bit of fuel when it's running wide open. Do you really want the $500 gas bill it could generate to keep it 70 inside or would you rather it only be able to do 65 with a $350 gas bill?
really..... i want it 75..... wife would kill me if I installed one to maintain only 65......
Originally Posted by 54regcab
it was working.... played with it.... now its broke.... whats the going hourly rate for HVAC repair
I calculate 76,000 BTU/hr
for 2,500 square foot residence at -20'F. using abridged Manual J 8th edition method.
Infiltration grade selected of semi-loose may or may not be appropriate to Your Home.
Infiltration = 21,000 BTU/hr at -20'F
68,000 BTU/ Hr at -10'F and 75'F inside.
48,000 BTU/hr for a 1st floor 1500 Sq Foot and 28,000 BTU/Hr
for 1,000 Sq Foot 2nd level.
Hopefully, your residence is close to or a less than
what I believe may be typical for "the thermal envelope" of a
1991 MN construction.
This calc leads me to believe that 80,000 BTU/Hr furnace / 96% efficient
would likely be an appropriate selection. You will have to judge for yourself
if my "typical house thermal envelope" is a good representation for Your House.
360 Sq.Feet of windows at U 0.4
R-30 Ceiling 2,500 Sq Feet
R-11 Walls 2,900 Sq Feet
$1,250 1,250 therms at $1.00 / therm
given 6,400 Heating Degree Days
10/1/2011 -- 436 -- 6.88%
11/1/2011 -- 815-- 12.86%
12/1/2011 -- 1181 - 18.63%
1/1/2012 -- 1298 -- 20.48%
2/1/2012 -- 1112 -- 17.54%
3/1/2012 -- 554 -- 8.74%
4/1/2012 -- 463 -- 7.30%
5/1/2012 -- 156 -- 2.46%
6/1/2012-- 46 - - 0.73%
7/1/2012 -- 24 -- 0.38%
8/1/2012 -- 49-- 0.77%
9/1/2012-- 205 -- 3.23%
It's Not Rocket Science, But It is SCIENCE
with "Some Art". ___ ___ K EEP I T S IMPLE & S INCERE
Define the Building Envelope and Perform a Detailed Load Calc: It's ALL About Windows and Make-up Air Requirements. Know Your Equipment Capabilities
The two stage of the Goodman can use either a board timer or an auto setting which measures the time from previous cycles to determine how long it will stay in 1st or 2nd stage. I've got the GMH in my own house and it works fine. But it does not use "true" two stage thermostat to control it. Goodman does have a Goodcare extended labor warranty that you can purchase and you'll not be tied into some "form" of in house warranty costing you $20 a month to keep. Look into that coverage. I'd not recommend the seller's "own" warranty for reasons some of the others have mentioned. The GMH also has a 10 year "no hassle" warranty whereby they replace the entire furnace unit if heat exchanger fails within first 10 years. Look into this also!
Not being able to use a 2 stage stat on a 2 stage furnace is a SERIOUS flaw IMHO. Makes me wonder what other things they took shortcuts on...
I'm sure some will be offended but I look at it like this, using idea Goodman is like a bunch of paths the same distance so basically it's all a short cut lol.
Originally Posted by 54regcab
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What's sad is Goodman isn't even that cheap anymore. Rheem/Ruud is better equipment and costs about the same. Concord and other "generic" names have taken Goodman's place in the low $$$ market.
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