UA Union Card Tittles

[valdelocc]

As explained to me...
MES -- mechanical equipment service
DVJ -- I've been told this means "divisional journeyman", but that makes "DVJ MES Journeyman" rather redundant. Also, the guys down at my hall aren't exactly the sharpest knives in the drawer.

[/B]

In my local most service guys are BTJ, the MES guys are typically former scabs on probation or filter changers, they make somewhere between 60 to 80% of BTJ pay and a lot less fringes.

[MechanicallyInclined]

My card says "Building Trades Journeyman Refrigeration Pipefitter". If that's not a UA made up title, I don't know what is. Are you using the acronym MES as Mechanical Equipment Serviceman? Or as Mechanical Equipment Service, being substituted for HVACR?
In your professional opinion, what should a UA HVACR Tech be under BT, MT, DT or something else? A little further something on the Locals, I'm in a Plumbing (Combo) Local. As HVACR, we're dead last of the trades being repped.
To the other guy:

Divisional Trades
Mechanical Equipment Service
Service Journeyman

Is this correct?

[MechanicallyInclined]

Here goes my 3 liner:
Building Trades
Refrigeration Pipefitter
Service Journeyman

Can "Service", specifically HVACR Service honestly be Building Trades? A little off topic, but what would a Service Plumber be under?

[valdelocc]

Here goes my 3 liner:
Building Trades
Refrigeration Pipefitter
Service Journeyman

Can "Service", specifically HVACR Service honestly be Building Trades? A little off topic, but what would a Service Plumber be under?

My card reads "BTJ steamfitter", and to answer your question, at least in my local most service techs are capable of running pipe and unclogging toilets, we are the best rounded guys, plumbers-fitters cant do our jobs but we are more than qualify to do theirs, if any we should be pay more.

[MechanicallyInclined]

Are you in a Plumbing Combo Local or a Pipefitters Local? I see alot of Pipefitter Local back east refer to themselves as Steamfitters. I think "Refrigeration Pipefitter" seems weird, imagine "Refrigeration Steamfitter"!

[Antarctic Fox]

In my local most service guys are BTJ, the MES guys are typically former scabs on probation or filter changers, they make somewhere between 60 to 80% of BTJ pay and a lot less fringes.

Same in our local. "Tradesmen" get paid significantly less and have fewer benefits. In essence, "tradesmen" are scabs hired off the street by the company. There's one company I can think of around here that hires that way. It's essentially "union in name only" -- hiring and paying a journeyman is the last thing they want to do.

Well, as far as UA card "tittles" go, I think the only thing we can say conclusively from all the responses in this thread is that all these terms are applied differently from local to local.

[OpenDrive]

I was issued one of these cards when I started. It means Division Vocation Journeyman --Mechanical Equipment Serviceman. I was promptly told by a more knowledgeable person in union matters after a couple of years doing Chiller/Process work that I was getting screwed, and that this designation meant that they didn't have to pay you scale. I hired in with 5 years chiller experience, so I didnt go through the program. The company used it as a "try it before you buy it" plan. I complained and got it changed to BTJ Pipefitter. A certain nationally known service organization (not Carrier, so guess who) hires people with these cards and sticks them on full maintenance contracts so they don't have to give them a raise throughout the length of the full maintenance contract. I have apprentices that are classified as MES who don't get a raise for 4 years. They have to change jobs and get reclassified as apprentices to get the BTJ card

[OpenDrive]

Also I think it is funny how we as a union ( the UA) would like to expand and get more members to sign up, but then others in above posts refer to people as "Scabs" or "Union in name only." Maybe this is an up-north phenomenon, but if we are to thrive and grow as a union; we must shed the opinion that many have of us as rude and "overpaid and overpriced." Down here in the South, locals have to persuade and sell union membership. In other words, we have to attract members. There are no closed shops where union membership is mandatory. And most heavy commercial/industrial techs are dues paying members by choice. I don't consider myself a better human being than my non-union counterparts; but I do consider myself to be blessed to belong to the UA, and my Non-union counterparts are missing out on a good thing.

[MechanicallyInclined]

I agree with you on that. I don't see why Daikin-McQuay, Emcor, Hill-Phoenix, Hussmann, and Trane won't become Union across the board.

[MechTech2013]

I had a hard time finding a thread like this. I know a guy who has a Card that reads "DVJ MES Serviceman" or something like that. I don't know what DVJ means, but MES should be Mechanical Equipment Service. This guy was a Serviceman for the Big Blue J, after 5 years he was turned out as a Jm. He never got a Jm Card though. Should his new Card say "DVJ MESJ"? Keep in mind that this guy never went through an Apprenticeship and never worked for a local signatory. I'm in a similar situation, but I have "BTJ Refrigeration Pipefitter" card.

[CFESAmasterEGSR]

So, did anyone come up with a real answer for what DVJ means? That's what my card says "DVJ Mechanical Equipment Service Journeyman".

I'm a service tech in a van, no pipe fitting. Unfortunately my local has a reduced MES rate.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MechTech2013]

I was issued one of these cards when I started. It means Division Vocation Journeyman --Mechanical Equipment Serviceman. I was promptly told by a more knowledgeable person in union matters after a couple of years doing Chiller/Process work that I was getting screwed, and that this designation meant that they didn't have to pay you scale. I hired in with 5 years chiller experience, so I didnt go through the program. The company used it as a "try it before you buy it" plan. I complained and got it changed to BTJ Pipefitter. A certain nationally known service organization (not Carrier, so guess who) hires people with these cards and sticks them on full maintenance contracts so they don't have to give them a raise throughout the length of the full maintenance contract. I have apprentices that are classified as MES who don't get a raise for 4 years. They have to change jobs and get reclassified as apprentices to get the BTJ card

How can you be a "Journeyman" and "Serviceman"? I was told it was Divisional Trades Jurisdiction or something like that.
CFESA: Who sets your MES schedule, the MSCA or the Local?

[CFESAmasterEGSR]

The local.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MechTech2013]

My home Local used verbage almost identical to the NSMA. The exceptions were calling the MESJ an SJ, the MES a Serviceman, and the MEST an ST. Everything lineup perfectly. A Construction Journeyman (all trades) were equal to Service Journeyman (Plumbing and HVACR). A monkeywrench was thrown in there recently with the addition of an Industrial rate.

[HVAC_Marc]

I have no idea what DVJ means?

Doctor of Veterinary Journalism

[MechTech2013]

DVJ MESJ should always be equal to the highest BT Service Journeyman. If you're an "HVACR Tech" deemed as an DVJ MESJ and you're not equal to, for example, a BT Service Plumber - then there's a problem.
CFESA: Are you working for a National Signatory?

[CFESAmasterEGSR]

You mean a contractor signed onto the NSMA? Yes.

That agreement leaves it up to the local to determine MESJ scale. My local sets it at 80% of BTJ scale.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MechTech2013]

A National Signatory and an NSMA Signatory can be two different things. Is your company Nationwide or Regional? Some Locals do have HVACR shops sign the NSMA, even though those shops aren't National.
Okay, in your Local does an MESm make 80 percent of the MESJ who makes 80 percent of the BTJ? If so, that's not cool.

[CFESAmasterEGSR]

Sorry. Whats MESm stand for?

Not a national company. Regional I would say.

We have techs out of 5 or 6 locals I think.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MechTech2013]

MES can mean Mechanical Equipment Service (the classification of work) or Mechanical Equipment Serviceman (a classification under MES). I know it doesn't make sense. I use MESm when referring to the Serviceman. A neighboring Local uses the term Mechanical Equipment Service Serviceman. That makes no sense.