ReplyUsually evaporators don't have insulated headers, so, is the water damaging anything? If not there is nothing wrong with the unit, just over zealous customers.
Regular Guest
Good morning, I'm looking into a complaint of a customer recently about condensation coming off of the suction line and headers of the exposed evaporator on a carrier model 50TC-D12A2B5-0A0A0 10 ton Package RTU. I need to address it accordingly and this is the 3rd one of these i've had installed where someone noticed. Now I Belive this just to be a manufacture issue due the exposed headers from the evaporator coil sweating, however I was wondering if anyone had any ideas of possible corrections that can be done and or just refer our customer to carrier?
any thoughts or replies are greatly appreciated.
Member
Usually evaporators don't have insulated headers, so, is the water damaging anything? If not there is nothing wrong with the unit, just over zealous customers.
Regular Guest
My job is to try and make the customer satisfied 100% with our installations and service, especially for the customers with multiple facillities. This units location is in a high salt enviorment as well and the condensation is leading him to belive that they wont get the proper ammount of life out of the units before the base of the package unit rust out.
how would you in my situation address the director that is not satisfied with the ammount of water the unit is creating on the roof ?
Professional Member*
Contact Carrier Engineering and see what they have to say.
Professional Member*
Is the unit level? So it's sweating in an exposed area of the unit like where rain would get to?
Regular Guest
yes the unit is level, and yes in the exposed area in the compressor area, on this model the evaporator is exposed as well for whatever reason (the headers)
Professional Member
Is there something you're leaving out? This unit doesn't really look like they've changed the cabinet in going to R-22 to R-410a, so I don't see what's special about it. I believe I've run across a few 410a 50 series units in the field, but most of the Carrier 50s that I see these days are still R22 units. I've seen a lot of those, as has everyone else here who has to work on package units, and I don't think there's anything unusual about the header on the evaporator sticking into the condenser section. That's the way Carrier does it, and, of course, it's going to form condensate there. I've never seen it rust out the bottom of the condenser section in the useful service life of the unit. Beyond a "useful" service life, that's a different matter. Even then I think it's more from rainwater pooling in the condenser than condensate. Are they JUST complaining about condensate forming on the header and suction line? If that's all, then I have to agree with toocoolforschool; you've got a case of overzealous customers yanking your chain.
Service manual for those who are interested.
Professional Member*
Is this the same unit you asked about in another thread, entitled "Package RTU... Complaint from customer..."?
Regular Guest
Originally Posted by Nuclrchiller
no, we corrected that issue already... of course that unit sweats also out of the sides of the condenser/compressor compartment area... same issue same complaint
To me it's not a big deal, but for what ever reason it is to them...
Regular Guest
You could insulate the header and make it air tight.
What about rain ,fog and morning dew?
Regular Guest
Oh, and the condensation is normal.
Member
That's pretty can I take it home??
Costomers will try and complain about anything to get something for free, sounds like a tactic they are trying.
Tell them it is a rooftop unit and they do not need to reengineer it for Carrier.
Regular Guest
well i'll have to figure something out to just make them happy letting them know i'll personally go the extra mile to continue to get the jobs, even tho there is nothing wrong with the unit to begin with, i've explained that carrier has designed those that way for years and have no issue with rusting out the bottom of base of the compressor compartment area beyond a useful service life. But they've had bad experiences due to the high salt enviorment they are near they've had the same cabinents rust out within 5 years, i suggested that either epoxy paint or weatherized coating is applied to the base in an attempt to perserve the integrity. package units are inteded to be exposed to the enviorment they are just not use to the sweating because all the other units on this roof in particular are Trane with a fully encloused evap coil.
The units have noticalbe surface rust within a week of the installation.
Professional Member
I just replaced a header coil on a unit that was 10 months old. Tubes were freezing within minutes, second stage would kick in and satisfy stat. Header was soaked. Carrier has had an issue with blocked headers.
Professional Member
If they really insist on no condensation, put armaflex on the suction line and then coat the header area with spray foam. Then pray you never have clogged orifice tubes and have to replace the header
Professional Member
I think you've already gone above and beyond what a reasonable customer would expect out of you. You're a service tech, not a design engineer for Carrier. We all know that a unit is going to have a different useful service life depending on the locale where it's installed. If I have two identical Carriers both installed at the same time, one in Houston and the other in Galveston, and they both get the same level of preventive maintenance, then I can tell you that the one in Galveston is going to have a drastically shorter service life than the one in Houston simply because the salty air is just going to destroy the coils and cabinet in a few years.
Your customer is well aware of this, but he is the one that made the choice to buy these units from you as bid, and now he is trying to retroactively get you to make them into something they're not: super duper magic machines that will never fail and never corrode. If he's paying your company T&M for these calls, then I say yeah, try to address his concerns, but it's all gonna end in tears. You're fighting Mother Nature. Sure, you can try coating them in something to prevent further oxidation, but that's going to be all that you can do. The unit's doing what it does, and Mother Nature is doing what she does. Sooner or later, she always wins. Your enamel paint spray sounds like a good idea. I would try NuCalgon's Cold Galvanizing Spray. You could try NuCalgon's Pipe Dri on the header and suction line as well, but I've never used it and won't vouch for it.
If, however, you guys are doing this as warranty work, then you really need to put your foot down. I seriously doubt "magic air conditioner" was written on the job proposal your company sent to the customer. You can't make every customer 100% happy 100% of the time, especially if that customer is determined to try to get more out of you than he paid for. Remove the rust that has already built up, use that galvanizing spray, then make damn sure you charge him for anything that doesn't fall explicitly under the conditions of the warranty for the duration of the warranty period, else I guarantee you he'll probably try to get every bit of free work out of you that he can until the warranty's up. And that's when he'll start calling another unsuspecting HVAC contractor to come out and service his equipment.
Been there, done that.
Last edited by Antarctic Fox; 10-23-2012 at 02:58 PM. Reason: added hyperlinks to products that I couldn't from my handy dandy tablet PC
Regular Guest
These units sweating is not abnormal. You have to make them understand that you are the professional not them in a polite manner to future customers right off the bat, its how you carry yourself. Unfornately its probably blown with this customer now that you have entertained the idea of performing a miracle.
Professional Member
I wholeheartedly agree with you, canusayinsanity.
Professional Member*
If I was going to install one in Galveston I would install one with an E-coated coil to make it last as long as the one 30 miles up the road in Houston.
Professional Member
There's what you know is the right thing to do, and what the customer is willing to pay for. Give 'em two options: what you know will serve them best in the long run, and the one that's cheaper. You know which option most are gonna take. canusayinsanity hit on the crux of the matter, though.
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