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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Seattle WA
    Posts
    1,241

    Restaraunt HVAC Challenge

    Hi guys, I have a builder client that wants us to come up with the HVAC solution for their new restaurant project. It is in a very old building in the historic Pikes Place Market in Seattle that is currently being served by some sort of central hydronic system. The restaurant cannot have large ducts and all the insulated piping for aesthetic reasons and the building owner does not want to have a ductless system and is requesting a solution that utilizes the buildings existing hydronic system. So we're in a pickle. I am wondering if you guys have any recommendations for me that would be unobtrusive to the interior of the restaurant and if possible utilize the buildings hydronic system (I won't have exact details on whats under the hood for a few days). There is natural gas in the building. Here are some pictures of the heated space. I'm not sure if there's some sort of high velocity system that uses very small ducting or something similar that will work, this is a head scratcher. The first thing I thought was ductless but I think I'll have to exhaust all other avenues before forcing it. Any help would be very much appreciated





    America; first we fight for our freedom,
    then we make laws to take it away.

    -Alfred E Newman

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    SouthEast NC ICW & Piedmont Foothills
    Posts
    7,635
    it appears as it has a hot & cold deck; is that the case?

    are they wanting an independent cooling setup?
    It`s better to be silent and thought the fool; than speak and remove all doubt.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Seattle WA
    Posts
    1,241
    Not sure exactly, won't know until later next week when I get back out. They do want cooling. I am going to try to strong arm a City Multi system unless one of you guys can help a brotha out
    America; first we fight for our freedom,
    then we make laws to take it away.

    -Alfred E Newman

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN, USA
    Posts
    34,158
    4 pipe fan coil?

    Yea, VRF might be the ticket. Much or possibly all of the building below, the pride and joy of Carmel Indiana, is served by VRF units. I thought a big central plant not far away conditioned it but I know a lot of the space has Sanyo or LG machines. A new bar in it has 3 LGs, all ducted like any ducted system.


  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Gainesville, FL
    Posts
    325
    Daikin has some really attractive and versatile multi split cassette options, and a VRV line. I'd look there for inspiration.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Auckland , South Pacific.
    Posts
    5
    Can only suggest you create a deception and paint literally everything above a practical level mat black and have suspended down lights at that level. So as there is no upward light or reflection. Everything above control level will disappear. Alternatively install suspended ceiling grid tiling which is expensive.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Seattle WA
    Posts
    1,241
    Quote Originally Posted by BaldLoonie View Post
    4 pipe fan coil?

    Yea, VRF might be the ticket. Much or possibly all of the building below, the pride and joy of Carmel Indiana, is served by VRF units. I thought a big central plant not far away conditioned it but I know a lot of the space has Sanyo or LG machines. A new bar in it has 3 LGs, all ducted like any ducted system.

    That's where I'm at with this thing. I won't touch it otherwise. The building owners are going to have to get over the pipe dream that we can utilize the existing system with this restaurant.

    Pete838, I have looked into the new Daiken stuff, its pretty awesome. Believe it or not the City Multi S equipment is cheaper... I'll figure out which line has the best indoor units and controls.

    Maka, thats a no-go. The ceiling height is only about 8" by the time any traditional ductwork goes in the restaurant patrons can reach up from their tables and touch it lol.

    Maybe I'll design a station at the front door where they can hand out blankets. That's it, they can call the restaurant "Blankets" and it can be trendy, problem solved.
    America; first we fight for our freedom,
    then we make laws to take it away.

    -Alfred E Newman

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN, USA
    Posts
    34,158
    Have you figured what is there now? Fan coil or WSHP?

    Sent from my HTC VLE_U using Tapatalk 2

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Seattle WA
    Posts
    1,241
    Quote Originally Posted by BaldLoonie View Post
    Have you figured what is there now? Fan coil or WSHP?

    Sent from my HTC VLE_U using Tapatalk 2
    No, I will know this week for sure though.
    America; first we fight for our freedom,
    then we make laws to take it away.

    -Alfred E Newman

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    8
    Not being sarcastic here, but doesn't the tag on the unit say " FCU-2-1?" Sure looks like a 4 pipe FCU to me too...

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Northern VA
    Posts
    622
    I guess you'd better. the guy in the picture is already looking for a pipe chase.
    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyTree View Post
    Not sure exactly, won't know until later next week when I get back out. They do want cooling. I am going to try to strong arm a City Multi system unless one of you guys can help a brotha out
    "Iron sharpeneth iron..."

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Baton Rouge, LA
    Posts
    1,113
    Man I was in there 4 days ago lol! I took the ghost tour out of Keyllies Irish Pub.

    I have never used this system and have no idea how well it does or doesn't work but it seems to fit your needs. We did two proposals using this system for a wet room at a lab. They decided they couldn't afford the cost of a chiller and a boiler and never made the rooms.

    edwards valance
    If you're too "open" minded, your brains will fall out.
    Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    B.C. Canada
    Posts
    858
    Quote Originally Posted by 2many?? View Post
    Not being sarcastic here, but doesn't the tag on the unit say " FCU-2-1?" Sure looks like a 4 pipe FCU to me too...
    Id sayso... neverseen a 4 pipe WSHP

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