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  1. #40
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    121
    Good to hear about the ALC equipment being truly BACnet MS/TP compatible now (with the proper drivers loaded). That is a very positive development in my opinion.

  2. #41
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Amarillo by mornin'
    Posts
    853
    Quote Originally Posted by dracula View Post
    Xarralu,

    Are the new ALC module drivers packaged with WC5.2 or 5.5 or 5.6?
    They came out with these drivers after 5.5 came out, so I am going to assume that they will come out with 5.6

    Have you tried using them with WC3.0 or WC4.1spB systems?
    No I personally haven't, but according to the ALC dealer site it's backwards compatible. (See Screenshot below)

    Name:  execb.PNG
Views: 238
Size:  18.6 KB

    I still have clients with older systems that don't have the funds to upgrade yet due to
    the tight economy, and are trying to keep there controls going until they can afford
    to start upgrading.

    I noticed mention of a P10 module, what about the old 88h drivers?
    Old stuff is still kickin'. I've had so many sites say if it still works, why replace it. I fore warn them that if it does finally go out there is no direct replacement, so just get ready.

    I wonder if the newer BACnet control specs hitting the street that exclude any BACnet product line that
    "locks" out BACnet points, and controllers, from being accessed by the owner or "owner's selected
    representative" are starting to have an impact at the manufacturers "C-Level" decision makers.

    ALC has made a very smart strategic move with these changes.
    Yea, it's been a long time coming and I'm glad they finally let ALC branded equipment loose. They have had it for quite some time with their OEM versions but for some reason ALC dealer equipment is last on the list to get let go of.
    "It's not that I'm smart, it's that I stay with the problem longer”
    Albert Einstein

  3. #42
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Central Iowa
    Posts
    213
    Thanks for the reply Atticus.
    1, The customer pays for the entire control system. I'm not saying they should be able to write the code that runs the program itself. That is intelectual property. I'm saying they should be able to change setpoints, alter PIDs and view any point on the system. They paid for that.
    2, If I buy a smart phone, I expect to be able to program my own brother's or friend's number and personal infor into it without having to pay tech support $$$/hr to do it for me. This is not changing the internal programming, simply makking it easier for me to use.
    My 2 cents.

  4. #43
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Just North of Hellhole Swamp
    Posts
    57
    ALC legacy conversions to WebCRTL can get slightly glitchy sometimes especially when you want to edit the logic. I do know that running a BACnet/MSTP device on a BACnet/ARC156 network will drag the comm down.

    ALC is proud of their stuff price-wise but I have modules that have not seen daylight in 18 years and never had a problem with a majority of them until a UNI goes down and then you lose a whole wing. Also replacing UNI 59's with UNI32's eases the problem a little but not much.

    ALC dealers cannot cross territories on installations BUT they can do other work (parts, engineering, etc) I have been told so that might be an option.

    Also ALC has a module called equipment portal ( http://www.automatedlogic.com/files/.../cseqprtl.pdf/ ) that can communicate over mostly anything. They are about the same price as a ZN551. That might be an option also.

  5. #44
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Madison, Wisconsin
    Posts
    430
    There was once a lot of bragging among BACnet advocates - aimed at Lon - about how BACnet packets could be transported via various and sundry network protocols. We can thank ALC for demonstrating to us why that's not such a great idea.
    This message was packed by weight, not by volume.
    Some settling of the electrons may have occurred during shipping.

  6. #45
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    California
    Posts
    308
    Quote Originally Posted by kontrolphreak View Post
    Only issue is that older generation (S/UNI/M/LGR) only do ARC156 or CMnet. Yes on current generation (SE/ZN/ME/LGR) you can set them up as MSTP, but this is no help for the OP.
    Also doing this MSTP/ARC156 conversion after the initial install would entail taking all the controllers off the network, set jumpers at each controller (those VAV boxes will be fun), change the network type in Sitebuilder then reconnect all the controllers. I don't feel that many if any non-ALC technician/programmers could accomplish this without some hiccups.

    If we get this moved to Pro I could add some more "issues", but not happening out here.

    kontrol out
    Quote Originally Posted by fixitman View Post
    There was once a lot of bragging among BACnet advocates - aimed at Lon - about how BACnet packets could be transported via various and sundry network protocols. We can thank ALC for demonstrating to us why that's not such a great idea.
    ???!

  7. #46
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Amarillo by mornin'
    Posts
    853
    Quote Originally Posted by Turnipblood View Post
    ALC dealers cannot cross territories on installations BUT they can do other work (parts, engineering, etc) I have been told so that might be an option..
    Well...we have done a few sites that is in other dealers area's. One site requested someone other than them. They contacted our office and we worked it out with that "other" dealer for their new addition. For another customer ,we flew a guy to Florida (not in our state).

    Also ALC has a module called equipment portal ( http://www.automatedlogic.com/files/.../cseqprtl.pdf/ ) that can communicate over mostly anything. They are about the same price as a ZN551. That might be an option also.
    Right now the only thing that the EQ-PRTL can talk is Modbus and LON.
    "It's not that I'm smart, it's that I stay with the problem longer”
    Albert Einstein

  8. #47
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    What? Who? Where?
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    1,697
    Quote Originally Posted by control$ View Post
    The old S,M,UNI,LGR,LGE all support MS/TP. The exec 4 Devices do not, but hell bacnet wasn't invented at that time.
    BACnet/MSTP?

    I thought the old controllers (other then U-Cards) were either BACnet/ARC156 or CMnet. I have tried to add a controller configured to CMnet 38.4Kbs to a BACnet 38.4Kbs MSTP network and it crashed the whole network, so I assumed that CMnet is not MSTP.
    The 2MB LGE can be MSTP (ARC156/MSTP printed right on the controller) but the rest of the older controllers have ARC156/CMnet printed on the board.

    kontrol out.
    "Open is as open does." - Forrest Gump
    "Can't we all just get a Lon?" - Garry Jack
    "BACnet: integration or interrogation?" - The Janitor
    "Open protocols? You can't handle open protocols!" - Nathan R. Jessup
    “What’s that? Aaa… open protocols? Don’t talk about…. open protocols? Are you kidding me? Open protocols? I just hope we can hardwire an interface!” - Jim Mora http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7fjDS0jKiE

  9. #48
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    California
    Posts
    308
    Quote Originally Posted by kontrolphreak View Post
    BACnet/MSTP?

    I thought the old controllers (other then U-Cards) were either BACnet/ARC156 or CMnet. I have tried to add a controller configured to CMnet 38.4Kbs to a BACnet 38.4Kbs MSTP network and it crashed the whole network, so I assumed that CMnet is not MSTP.
    The 2MB LGE can be MSTP (ARC156/MSTP printed right on the controller) but the rest of the older controllers have ARC156/CMnet printed on the board.

    kontrol out.
    What control did you have an issue with? I can't think of one until your back to exec 4.

  10. #49
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
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    It was a UNI32. Haven't tried it for a couple of years. I think a have it still floating around and an old S card. Will attempt again one day.

    kontrol out
    "Open is as open does." - Forrest Gump
    "Can't we all just get a Lon?" - Garry Jack
    "BACnet: integration or interrogation?" - The Janitor
    "Open protocols? You can't handle open protocols!" - Nathan R. Jessup
    “What’s that? Aaa… open protocols? Don’t talk about…. open protocols? Are you kidding me? Open protocols? I just hope we can hardwire an interface!” - Jim Mora http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7fjDS0jKiE

  11. #50
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Amarillo by mornin'
    Posts
    853
    Quote Originally Posted by fixitman View Post
    We can thank ALC for demonstrating to us why that's not such a great idea.
    I'm not following you on this one. So what wasn't a good idea?
    "It's not that I'm smart, it's that I stay with the problem longer”
    Albert Einstein

  12. #51
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    What? Who? Where?
    Posts
    1,697
    X,

    I decided not to feed the troll.

    kontrol out
    "Open is as open does." - Forrest Gump
    "Can't we all just get a Lon?" - Garry Jack
    "BACnet: integration or interrogation?" - The Janitor
    "Open protocols? You can't handle open protocols!" - Nathan R. Jessup
    “What’s that? Aaa… open protocols? Don’t talk about…. open protocols? Are you kidding me? Open protocols? I just hope we can hardwire an interface!” - Jim Mora http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7fjDS0jKiE

  13. #52
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Amarillo by mornin'
    Posts
    853
    Quote Originally Posted by kontrolphreak View Post
    X,

    I decided not to feed the troll.

    kontrol out
    I'm with ya, I'm just wanting to see the fur fly!
    "It's not that I'm smart, it's that I stay with the problem longer”
    Albert Einstein

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