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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    20

    Should I even pay them the balance?

    We just had a new American Standard air handler with a 15KW heat strip package and the matching 2.5 ton heat pump. I've learned a lot here and am quite interested in HVAC. I watched the installer "make" the line-set, which was 3/8" liquid line and 3/4" suction. I watched him bend and fit the line-set, which was off bulk rolls of copper tubing. He made 6 blazed connections, 2 at the outdoor unit (heat pump), 2 at the indoor coil, and 2 more for the bi-directional dryer. NONE of these braze connections were done with a nitrogen flow through the copper - tubing was just full of atmosphere. I told him to get out the nitrogen and he told me it's not necessary. From what I have read, he was wrong. I watched a video on youtube where a Guy brazes with and without nitrogen and then shows all the black oxidized material inside the tubing where nitrogen wasn't used. So we gave them 50% down to do the job and owe them 50% more. We are concerned the installation was not done correctly (nitrogen not used). The rest of the install looks very professional. The brazing looks perfect. Will this or could this cause us issues down the road? The owner of the company of course wants his money and also agrees with his installer. We want to pay them if indeed we won't have consequences from the brazing done without using the nitrogen.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Sherman, TX
    Posts
    9,441
    What kind of resolution are you looking for, other than not paying for half the job?
    Technical incompetence is NOT a sales tool....

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    20
    What really can be done now that it's up and running? If it was never run, do the brazing over using correct procedures. If it's going to be fine like it was done, the Check is on the way. We pay our bills but expect the experts to be just that, otherwise, I could of hired someone loser off of Craiglist to do it.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Western PA
    Posts
    25,547
    Not a one of us can predict if you'll have problems or not.

    To flow nitrogen is the proper way to do it, but there are a LOT of systems out there that have never seen nitrogen that are still running.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Houston,Tx.
    Posts
    15,913
    Lets see I figure there are maybe one or two units out yonder today that are still running after 30 years that nitrogen was never flowed in. You really have two choices, pay them or let them lien your home. Hopefully you will go to a heart surgeons forum before they perform heart surgery on any family member, so you can stand over the Doc. and make sure he is doing his job right.
    __________________________________________________ _______________________
    “Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards". - Vernon Law

    "Never let success go to your head, and never let failure go to your heart". - Unknown

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Charleston, SC
    Posts
    930
    If the system is in and running, pay the bill.
    Worst case, you will have issues later that can be corrected.
    Is there a labor warranty with the new system?

    I, and many others, strongly agree, nitrogen should have been used. It is not, however, a requirement that I have ever read in the installation manual.
    **Disclaimer - I have not read the installation manuals in detail in a while.
    "Customer Service" is not a department, it's an attitude!
    ???

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Houston,Tx.
    Posts
    15,913
    Quote Originally Posted by kitra View Post
    otherwise, I could of hired someone loser off of Craiglist to do it.
    Hey! I represent that remark.
    __________________________________________________ _______________________
    “Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards". - Vernon Law

    "Never let success go to your head, and never let failure go to your heart". - Unknown

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Central Indiana
    Posts
    614
    Asking that question on this site isn't the best solution. You should call the company and ask to speak to an installation supervisor or a manager of some kind and express your concern to them. Brazing with nitrogen is preferred but just because he didn't do it is no reason to not pay without trying to seek some sort of resolution with the company. Start there.
    The only true knowledge is the pursuit of knowledge

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Myrtle Beach, SC
    Posts
    2,919
    The bi-directional drier will catch some of the scale.

    The manual that came with the heat pump will probably say to purge nitrogen while brazing. Show the owner THAT.

    But pay him. Maybe he will make an adjustment.

    But you may want a new contractor for service after the warranty is up.
    Remember, Air Conditioning begins with AIR.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    4,381
    i say pay the man.

    Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using Tapatalk

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    20
    Maybe HVAC Techs don't like the facts I'm not HVAC illiterate? Why take shortcuts when you Guys should know what's right. I'll pay them but won't recommend them.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Western PA
    Posts
    25,547
    pwg11386


    This is the Ask Our Pro's forum. In order to post a response here, you must have verified qualifications and have been approved by the AOP Committee. You may ask a question by starting a new thread.

    You can find the rules for posting and qualifications here.

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  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Houston,Tx.
    Posts
    15,913
    Quote Originally Posted by kitra View Post
    Maybe HVAC Techs don't like the facts I'm not HVAC illiterate?
    Not me! I Love it when folks know what the heck is going on, less splaining I have to do.
    __________________________________________________ _______________________
    “Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards". - Vernon Law

    "Never let success go to your head, and never let failure go to your heart". - Unknown

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