Goodman HP with Propane or Electric Aux heat?

[tedkidd]

Thanks for all the insight, folks.

I will be having a re-quote done on a 2 stage 10KW electric backup, removing the propane furnace. I suspect the capital cost will be pretty close as I will need to run a 60A service about 80' from the garage to the crawl space for the strips.

As pointed out, this will make the heat staging a little more complex as I will want to be able to stage Y, Y2, W and W2. Would the EcoBee EB-STAT-02 be a good candidate for this?

I believe it would. I'm having great fun with mine. Putting 2 more in this weekend.

That said, the ability to truly communicate with the equipment is like the difference between a 1999 motorola flip phone and a droid razr maxx.

So if you get communicating equipment (ie Carrier or American Standard), get the manufacturers communicating thermostat.

[kangaroogod]

Assuming equal cost,,, I would rather have a toaster oven with resistance heaters that last forever and a relatively simple control board in a unit that requires essentially no maintenance over a unit that has multiple pressure switches, gas valves, condensate drains, inducer motor, and igniters to fail and requires far more service. If you factor a 20yr lifespan my money says you will have far less invested in your system with electric backup.

[RoBoTeq]

Assuming equal cost,,, I would rather have a toaster oven with resistance heaters that last forever and a relatively simple control board in a unit that requires essentially no maintenance over a unit that has multiple pressure switches, gas valves, condensate drains, inducer motor, and igniters to fail and requires far more service. If you factor a 20yr lifespan my money says you will have far less invested in your system with electric backup.

Is there anywhere in the U.S. where you can get a Btu of heat from an electric heater for the same cost in energy as a Btu of heat from a gas furnace would cost?

Ass-u-me?

[dan sw fl]

Is there anywhere in the U.S. where you can get a Btu of heat from an electric heater for the same cost in energy as a Btu of heat from a gas furnace would cost?

Ass-u-me?

((((((((( I would guess Kansas City might be close with extremely low electric rate.

[54regcab]

Is there anywhere in the U.S. where you can get a Btu of heat from an electric heater for the same cost in energy as a Btu of heat from a gas furnace would cost?

Ass-u-me?

He was using propane as backup. Electric resistance and propane are comparable in our area. Natural gas is of course the clear winner for fuel cost, but also remember to factor in the meter fees.

[kangaroogod]

Given his choices of propane or electric and using the rates provided it would be $3.13 a therm for propane and $3.22 a therm for electric. Based in the fact that the balance point is 30 degrees he will be using essentially all propane below 30 but with the heat pump he will be able to run the unit down to the design temp of 15 degrees with a cop of 2.75 (21200 but output) and supplement the balance of 12800 btus at essentially the same cost of propane. The big difference is that he will only need to heat 12800 btus at $3.22 and the 21200 btus at a bonus of $1.17 a therm instead of 34000
Btus at $3.13........If my math is correct......$1.09 per hour on propane and $.67 an hour on heatpump with electric backup. No brainier for me. Ass-u-me??? The verdict is still out

[BaldLoonie]

To stage 10kw, someone would have to redo the controls on the heat kit. Usually it would take 15kw and up to stage.

Jim, Rheem hasn't replaced demand with time in ages. That was the way they replaced the Ranco DD1 board in the early 90s. Now it is 100% demand and replaced that way. I don't think ICP has been demand in some time either. They used the DDL board Rheem used for a short time. That board was unreliable. They went back to timer, Rheem found a different vendor with a more reliable board. I assume York has a lot of demand boards still. Lennox/Allied in select high end units. Actually Allied in the 16 SEER but not the 18 SEER. I think they needed it to get a HSPF target. Obviously Trane has been demand forever. Oh, and Nordyne on high end too. Still want to replace my time board with the board out of the FT4BF. Looks like it will work!

[tedkidd]

Given his choices of propane or electric and using the rates provided

balance point is 30 degrees

all propane below 30

with the heat pump he will be able to run the unit down to the design temp of 15 degrees with a cop of 2.75 (21200 but output) and supplement the balance of 12800 btus at essentially the same cost of propane.

The big difference is that he will only need to heat 12800 btus at $3.22 and the 21200 btus at a bonus of $1.17 a therm instead of 34000 Btus at $3.13........If my math is correct......

$1.09 per hour on propane and $.67 an hour on heatpump with electric backup. No brainier for me. Ass-u-me??? The verdict is still out

That's what I was thinking! Propane and straight electric basically =. Depending upon common temperatures, that propane might run a lot, and the resistance not much at all.

And if it's like my mom's 2 stage Infinity, the pump just might just heat the house down to 7f NEVER requiring the backup.

*She's on NG. The reason we know it heats the house to 7f, they accidentally locked the furnace out at install. She called me on a 7f night wondering if there was a problem because the register air "felt a little cool". She wasn't terribly concerned "because the house was still 70", but thought she better check with me JIC.

[beenthere]

To stage 10kw, someone would have to redo the controls on the heat kit. Usually it would take 15kw and up to stage.

Jim, Rheem hasn't replaced demand with time in ages. That was the way they replaced the Ranco DD1 board in the early 90s. Now it is 100% demand and replaced that way. I don't think ICP has been demand in some time either. They used the DDL board Rheem used for a short time. That board was unreliable. They went back to timer, Rheem found a different vendor with a more reliable board. I assume York has a lot of demand boards still. Lennox/Allied in select high end units. Actually Allied in the 16 SEER but not the 18 SEER. I think they needed it to get a HSPF target. Obviously Trane has been demand forever. Oh, and Nordyne on high end too. Still want to replace my time board with the board out of the FT4BF. Looks like it will work!

The local supply house must have had an old T&T in stock then. I did one last winter, and they gave me a T&T instead of on demand.

Haven't installed a new ICP for a few years now, didn't realize they changed.

Lower end yorks are still T&T.