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  1. #40
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
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    71
    Quote Originally Posted by 54regcab View Post
    Not surprised, contractors have been forever scared of undersizing. This is why we find so many oversized units installed. A 2 ton single stage would suit you well. You need to determine the cost difference once rebates are applied.

    IMHO if utilities REALLY wanted to save peak demand they would simply limit the peak power of the unit relative to square footage of the house. Peak demand occurs on those days it's over 95 outside in most areas. EER is about the same for a 15 or 21 SEER unit. A smaller unit would reduce utilities peak demand by using less power during peak conditions then allowing the unit to do the catching up during off peak times.

    The 60K furnace is overkill for your house, a 40k is more than enough.

    The cost difference between the 2 ton and the 3 ton is $600.

  2. #41
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    71
    Well, the Bryant contractor says he is afraid to put a 2 ton in because he fears I will come back on them if the system doesn't cool the way I want it to. I am so damn frustrated right now I could spit nails. I think I am just going to put something in here and say screw it because no matter what I do, I have a feeling it will be wrong.

  3. #42
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    DC Metro Area (MD)
    Posts
    3,371
    What about the Trane dealer who is confident in his calculation for a 2 ton system? There is a science behind sizing HVAC equipment. It takes time to find a contractor who will size the equipment properly and perform a proper load calculation. I can see how it can be frustrating on your end. I can tell you that for a 1500 sqft house, I would 'fear' putting in a 3 ton system.

  4. #43
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    71
    Quote Originally Posted by RyanHughes View Post
    What about the Trane dealer who is confident in his calculation for a 2 ton system? There is a science behind sizing HVAC equipment. It takes time to find a contractor who will size the equipment properly and perform a proper load calculation. I can see how it can be frustrating on your end. I can tell you that for a 1500 sqft house, I would 'fear' putting in a 3 ton system.
    I hear ya. But what I fear is my wife complaining next summer "if" the house isn't cooling and I can't tell her that it isn't the contractors fault, it was mine because I was the one who downsized the AC unit...LOL!

    You know what? I came here asking you fine folks for advice and most all of you have said to go with the 2 ton/2 stage unit. The Trane guy was adamant about a 2 ton/single stage. The American Standard and this Bryant guy recommended 2.5 tons - NOT 3 tons. The only reason he went to 3 ton is because the 127A Preferred does not come in 1/2 ton sizes.

    Like mentioned above, I bet he upsized instead of downsized because that is kind of the way a lot of guys do.

    I am 90% leaning towards the 2 ton/2 stage...... Just need another push I guess.

    Thanks!

  5. #44
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Moore, Oklahoma, United States
    Posts
    4,296
    Quote Originally Posted by Zomby View Post
    The cost difference between the 2 ton and the 3 ton is $600.
    Compare the cost difference between the 2 ton single stage and the 3 ton 2 stage.

  6. #45
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Moore, Oklahoma, United States
    Posts
    4,296
    Quote Originally Posted by 54regcab View Post
    Compare the cost difference between the 2 ton single stage and the 3 ton 2 stage.
    IMHO the 2 stage 2 ton won't have a decent payback time vs, a single stage 2 ton unless large rebates are absorbing much of the cost difference. When you're at 750 sqft per ton you won't feel a large blast of cold air like you do at 500sqft per ton.

  7. #46
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    71
    Quote Originally Posted by 54regcab View Post
    Compare the cost difference between the 2 ton single stage and the 3 ton 2 stage.
    The cost difference between the 2 ton single stage and the 3 ton/2 stage is around $600. He lowered the cost significantly by adding a discount.

    Quote Originally Posted by 54regcab View Post
    IMHO the 2 stage 2 ton won't have a decent payback time vs, a single stage 2 ton unless large rebates are absorbing much of the cost difference. When you're at 750 sqft per ton you won't feel a large blast of cold air like you do at 500sqft per ton.
    I am thinking if I can get a return on my money in 10 years, I'll be happy.

  8. #47
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    DC Metro Area (MD)
    Posts
    3,371
    I wouldn't go to a 3 ton 2-stage in your home in my opinion. I haven't looked at the most recent ratings of Carrier/Bryant 2-stage unloading scroll systems, but I know they can run as much as 75-80% capacity on low stage. That puts you at 2.2-2.4 tons on low. Might as well get a single stage 2.5 ton system if you don't feel comfortable with getting a 2 ton system, which may very well be all you need. Trane used to make a 2.5 ton 2 stage system back when they made the XL19i (R-22) -- now just 2,3,4,5 ton in their XL16i and XL20i. If your home's load is 2 tons, then a 2-stage 2 ton system would be great. You would achieve longer runtimes on the milder days to improve comfort and dehumidification vs. a single stage system. You need a contractor confident and thorough in his load calculation such that he can guarantee the system will maintain your desired indoor temperature at design conditions. Will the Trane guy guarantee performance of the new system? He should. Find out what design conditions he used (indoor and outdoor temps, winter and summer).

  9. #48
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    71
    Quote Originally Posted by RyanHughes View Post
    I wouldn't go to a 3 ton 2-stage in your home in my opinion. I haven't looked at the most recent ratings of Carrier/Bryant 2-stage unloading scroll systems, but I know they can run as much as 75-80% capacity on low stage. That puts you at 2.2-2.4 tons on low. Might as well get a single stage 2.5 ton system if you don't feel comfortable with getting a 2 ton system, which may very well be all you need. Trane used to make a 2.5 ton 2 stage system back when they made the XL19i (R-22) -- now just 2,3,4,5 ton in their XL16i and XL20i. If your home's load is 2 tons, then a 2-stage 2 ton system would be great. You would achieve longer runtimes on the milder days to improve comfort and dehumidification vs. a single stage system. You need a contractor confident and thorough in his load calculation such that he can guarantee the system will maintain your desired indoor temperature at design conditions. Will the Trane guy guarantee performance of the new system? He should. Find out what design conditions he used (indoor and outdoor temps, winter and summer).

    Bryant does offer a 2.5 ton single stage in their legacy line. I didn't like the design because it does not have a louvered cabinet. We got hit with 4 hail storm this past year and each one dented the hell out of the coils on the condenser unit.

    I have decided to go with the 2 ton unit. I am basing this on what the contractors said on their initial visits as they all suggested 2.5 or less, but also on what information I have gathered from this post as well as digging through the archives here.

    Once the decision is made, I am stuck with it either way!

  10. #49
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Moore, Oklahoma, United States
    Posts
    4,296
    If it makes you feel any better I made the switch to a 2 ton from a previously installed 3 ton and feel it was right on the money !!!

  11. #50
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Anderson, South Carolina, United States
    Posts
    7,056
    I think you and your wife will be happy with that decision and happier with your utility bills

  12. #51
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    71
    A funny thing happened on the way to being "final".

    The Bryant rep asked me if the Trane rep knew my ductwork was in the crawlspace. I told him I really didn't know and asked him why. He said the reason he went 3 ton was because of that fact.

    So I call the Trane rep and he said he did not factor that in his calculations and then suggested a 2.5 ton or perhaps a 3 ton if I went to a 2 stage.

    I should have quit while I was ahead........ Sheez.

  13. #52
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Rochester NY
    Posts
    4,729
    You can always take the savings and get a rolling window unit IF it doesn't keep up for that 1 week a year.
    Which makes more sense to you?
    CONSERVATION - turning your thermostat back and being uncomfortable. Maybe saving 5-10%
    ENERGY EFFICIENCY - leaving your thermostat where everyone is comfortable. Saving 30-70%

    DO THE NUMBERS! Step on a HOMESCALE.
    What is comfort? Well, it AIN'T just TEMPERATURE!

    Energy Obese? An audit is the next step - go to BPI.org, or RESNET, and find an auditor near you.

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