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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Helena, Montana
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    JACE or Appication/PLC

    Reading another thread where this started to be a heated topic and became curious. Realistically, what is the difference between utilizing a JACE as your "critical equipment" controller as compared to another device? Now let me be specific, I mean a dedicated JACE with I/O modules for this purpose.

    Both are suseptible to the same dangers. Both basically have the same weaknesses and similar strengths.

    I would lean toward the JACE for more flexibilty, but that probably comes from my lack of experience with some of the other "better" controllers on the market.

    Thoughts?

    Don't worry zombies are looking for brains, you're safe...

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Posts
    216
    Exucution times are more critical in the PLC world vs the BAS environment.

    Its important that modified code; implementation/updates are performed "on the fly" without a re boot etc.

    Initial thoughts....

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Where it's dark & damp
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    609
    We've used a Jace as a field controller before and will again. I will say that it doesn't seem as robust as most of the field controllers we use. The one thing I hate is the fact that it reboots with the loss of comuniction with the NDIO. I have seen this happen a few times and it also takes more time to start executing it programs on reboot than all our field controllers as well.

    We do have plant controllers with almost twice the point count so there are benifits in both applications.

    The one thing the Jace has to it's advantage is the multiple protocol capability. We have used it as a slave modbus device, a BACnet device and a Lon device to comunicate to other supervisory controllers. I see that as its advantage hands down.
    It took actually learning something to realize how much I had to learn.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Posts
    216
    The Jace does not look to appealing for this application.

    The JACE fastest is 500ms (note they really mean minimum 800ms).

    You may consider this
    Loytec Linx products can be configured to 10ms PLC friendly execution rates, this allows you to run faster inputs when you have better program cycle rates.

    Some more information:
    LINX 150
    30,000 total points
    24 I/O modules (over 500 I/O)
    20 simultaneous web clients

    LON (FT/IP), BACnet(MSTP/IP), Modbus (master and/or slave) and OPC are standard with no licensing.

    This would be a good comparison for a platform that crosses both spectrum's of HVAC/BAS and PLC environments.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    1,481
    Quote Originally Posted by acddc View Post
    The JACE fastest is 500ms (note they really mean minimum 800ms)
    .
    ...are you sure about this?
    I can resolve a timer in milliseconds in a jace so I guess I'm wondering how this is possible with an execution time ofwhat...800ms
    I guess one of us is just misinformed.
    A bit weak claiming an authoritative position when yr facts are plain wrong...could backfire and make you look very stupid

    ...not saying you are of course. I'd never do that!

    ...sky still falling?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Posts
    216
    the last JACE literature I looked at stated 500ms. It is possible it may not be current.
    Which JACE are you using with better timing and where is this documentation?*
    I'd like to read it.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
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    1,481
    Quote Originally Posted by acddc View Post
    the last JACE literature I looked at stated 500ms. It is possible it may not be current.
    Which JACE are you using with better timing and where is this documentation?*
    I'd like to read it.
    ...mate, a more pertinent question here is ... Which Jace are YOU using???

    get my point?
    1 + 1 = 3 ( *** for very large values of 1)

    ...everybody wants a box of chocolates and long stemmed rose

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Posts
    216
    Well here we go off topic and the hornets nest is buzzing hahaha!!

    We have all flavors of loytec Linx and Jace products in all versions from R2 to AX from Hawaii, east coast to west, Canada to Mexico, and the Carribean. Lots of DOD implementations/installations.

    Back to topic.

    Can a Jace with I/O handle PLC cycle times faster than say a proximity sensor cycling at a rate of 40Ms? I.e. parcel handling.

    We use Tridium very infrequently and when you have heavier lifting to do with more robust program cycle times we use product that can handle this requirement.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
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    1,481
    Quote Originally Posted by acddc View Post
    Well here we go off topic and the hornets nest is buzzing hahaha!!...Can a Jace with I/O handle PLC cycle times faster than say a proximity sensor cycling at a rate of 40Ms?
    ...off topic ... hmm, you do realise that yr soliciting the response by 'quoting' dodgy 'facts' ... to sound like and 'expert' please, do try to be factual ... and accurate.

    ....its just that these days a JACE is um, pretty much event driven...you know ... just saying...

    What IS it with you Loytec people? almost without exception you behave in these forums the same way....seems the main topic is Tridium-bashing in an effort to somehow make the world realise that Loytec is innately superior. Loytec...hmm...I guess its broad acceptance across vendors and industry, its open-ness and licencing policies ... its price point ...its power and ruggedness ... its 'cycle time' ... um, all speak for themselves. (that was sarcasm btw)

    How about, since that yr flagship is so self-evidently brilliant, how about you bang on about its MERITS instead spending your time writing nasty under-handed and snide posts to undermine and derail topics? Do you guys get a bit narky about all the Tridium talk in these forums? ... spose you be in heaven if all we talked about here was Loytec? I've given this advice before....Reckon you'd do better not being so bitter and twisted about Tridium...might make Loyec look like a better proposition at the same time. Try it.

    ...and since yr such an expert at all things Tridium, why indeed don't you, yourself offer any help to those with Tridium questions?

    yr a weird bunch

    Hmmm, why dont you go off and hang around in PLC forums ... get yrself some validation ... youd probably feel better.
    1 + 1 = 3 ( *** for very large values of 1)

    ...everybody wants a box of chocolates and long stemmed rose

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Mount Airy, MD
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    7,281

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
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    96
    Quote Originally Posted by MatrixTransform View Post
    What IS it with you Loytec people? almost without exception you behave in these forums the same way...
    Are you sure there is more than one? I mean they are TOO similar

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    2,164
    "Controls is a lifestyle not a job" -klrogers

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    USA
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    Quote Originally Posted by MatrixTransform View Post
    I can resolve a timer in milliseconds in a jace so I guess I'm wondering how this is possible with an execution time ofwhat...800ms
    Not saying I have any clue how the Jace handles timers or the exact cycle rate, but....

    In a RTOS, timers can just hold a static count based on "system time” when an event was triggered (sys time is copied into them). System time may be from a RTC, system clock cycles, etc. Each cycle of the program these are updated by comparing their static value with the current system time.

    Soo. They may well have resolution that is in ms or less, but they may not be updated anywhere near that rate.

    I would be interested in what the real Jace cycle time is. I fail to see any need in the HVAC world for 10ms cycle times. Lighting maybe, but even that could done at 5x that rate (blink warnings).
    Propagating the formula. http://www.noagendashow.com/

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