ReplyThat big ole heatpump is gonna squish the crap out of that plastic pad! We use concrete!
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This is the system I recently had installed at my house. I don't take credit for any of the work, but they did a nice job. 4 ton communicating heat pump (XL20i) with matching air handler (TAM8). Also added a bypass humidifier and Honeywell media filter. Total static on high stage (1600 CFM) was around .55" with clean MERV 10 filter (.15 on low - 800 CFM). New properly sized lineset (3/4" x 3/8" is what Trane specs for 4 and 5 ton XL20i heat pumps) was installed. Proper procedure was followed: nitrogen flow, micron gauge, etc. System stabilized using the ChargeAssist feature. New disconnect with a surge protector. New properly sized flex return was added to the basement -- existing was tapped on one of the return trunks (feeding upper level) and was pulling a lot of air (making the basement very negative and never comfortable). We were prepared to balance the system at the end, but per the load calc the system was already well balanced with each room getting the CFM it needed. This replaced an 8 year old R-22 3.5 ton Payne 10 SEER heat pump "mis-matched" to a Lennox air handler. The heat pump had been problematic in the past and ultimately developed a leak. Decided it was time to upgrade to a better functioning, matched system. Hard to get good pictures of the air handler -- small utility space.
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Last edited by RyanHughes; 10-08-2012 at 11:00 AM.
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That big ole heatpump is gonna squish the crap out of that plastic pad! We use concrete!
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Yeah, in hindsight I do wish they used a stronger pad or a concrete one. It looks stable, not like a 400 lb unit is going anywhere. I think the damage to the pad is done, hoping it doesn't get worse. How hard do you think it would be to fix? If it waa really worth it, I'd offer to pay them to do it.Originally Posted by jimmyed
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4 ton?, looks to be restricted if all the return is travelling into the short flat box under the air handler
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Hyperion air handlers can do side return. Works well when you are limited with verical height. Over 1200 cfm you need to bring in return under the unit too.
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I'll also say that it's been installed for close to 2 months now, and it looks fine and stationary at this point, though the pad did give in a bit.
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hey Ryan. Did you goto ACCA in rockville?
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No, actually I did not. I used a company that had been servicing my system well in the past. I trust them to do good work and stand behind it. They did an all-around good, thorough job including load calc and airflow testing/balancing. The system is working well so far as I expected.
I've seen some of your jobs -- nice, clean work. I'm sure your customers are pleased.
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The company is actually a member of ACCA, however.
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Cool. I had a Ryan in my class when I went to ACCA.
Was wondering if it was yourself.
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Just glancing through the pictures, seems like the return is extremely undersized, which makes me wonder how you got such great #'s on the static pressure. I know you said an electrical disconnect was installed, but I did not see it within easy reach of the condenser, or even mounted outside looking at the pictures shown. Also, from what I saw you had a honeywell F100 series 4" media filter installed. The 10 MERV rating is not a true rating, test it after 2 weeks of running. The biggest cause of air condition failure is dirt, so if you put such a good system, why not protect it properly? Just saying. Also, there is no problem with a plastic pad, as long as it is a good style and not a cheap one. It makes it easier to relevel should the ground settle. Lastly, it should be raised off the ground for easy drainage and a minimum of a few inches off the ground, or a minimum of the height of a normal snow fall.
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I don't know where you get "extremely undersized" from -- maybe it's hard to see the return in the pictures. The return includes a 20x14 duct serving two central 22x22 return grills upstairs and downstairs (split trunk). A separate 6" flex return was added to the basement on a 12x12 grill. Being such a short, straight run, the 6" flex was providing 200-250 cfm when we tested the entire duct system using a flow hood. Did not want to make the basement too negative. This in addition to the existing 20x14 was fine for 1600 cfm at reasonable static when tested. The system spends most of its time at lower demand airflow anyway.
The disconnect is hard to see, but in pic 7 it's behind the slim duct covering the lineset.
The "MERV 10" filter after about 7 weeks has begun to load up a decent amount (evenly at least). I was considering just replacing it with a MERV 8 filter for a bit less pressure drop. What are you recommending instead of the MERV 10 filter?
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We have been using the composite plastic pads on most of our installs for 4 years now and have never had one come back smashed or bent in. I think its a good alternative to concrete. I know the guys like it much better! LOL
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We use solid concrete ones on larger heatpumps. Some of the big ones weigh 400lbs.
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The side they put towards the wall is the side that needs room to swing open for cleaning; condensing unit photos. Not cool IMO.
Read, read, read!
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There is plenty of space on all sides of the unit for service and cleaning. We were careful to make sure the service panel (to the left of where the lineset comes in) had plenty of clearance. How much space do you need? Was not going to install the unit in the middle of the side yard, and there wasn't much of an option to move it either. Anyone else want to find something to nitpick about? (Jimmy did make a valid point about the pad with a heavier unit like the 20i -- I do appreciate the feedback. But the unit is fine and stable on the current pad.)The side they put towards the wall is the side that needs room to swing open for cleaning; condensing unit photos. Not cool IMO.
By the way, the panels don't swing open. Not a Lennox.Although I was strongly considering the XP21. Chose the 20i for several reasons, including: 1. preferred the aluminum coil and EEV of the TAM8 over copper coil and generic TXV used in the CBX32MV for years, 2. could do side return with the TAM8 -- height was an issue and the Lennox would have been a tight fit, and 3. wanted the dual Climatuff compressors for better dehumidification and staging. I like the longer runtimes achieved with the 2 ton compressor, whereas with the Lennox or any other unloading scroll system I would be at ~3 ton capacity on low. Manual J called for 3.7 tons/1601 cfm to maintain 72 F db/50% RH. The 4 ton 20i was a great match providing ~46,100 btuh cooling @ 1600 cfm. The system has been working well in both cooling and heating modes so far. I really like the features of the ComfortLink II communicating system: tells you superheat, EEV position (/500 steps), coil temperature, DAT, ESP, blower RPM, and much more...
Last edited by RyanHughes; 10-15-2012 at 11:07 PM.
Professional Member
i *personally* must take exception with the color, i don't think the contractor matched the color scheme of your basement correctly. they must be unliscenced/nonunion/daylaborers from home depot. there's ansi regulations regarding color choice, clearly violated here. a real pro like me would never make such a *pft* obvious mistake.
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nice job Ryann.
you can take credit for hiring a company
who takes pride in their work.
maybe a nice cool sage green would be more
of a complimentary color match.
The cure of the part should not be attempted without the cure of the whole. ~Plato
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Thanks La. The basement carpet is a darker green shade, so I guess the air handler does match its surroundings quite nicely.
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Like the bottom/side return setup. Guess that's pretty close to ok:
It'll be interesting to see how much it runs at 4t, or if that's overkill/missed opportunity to get a lower low. You able to see run graphs?Total static on high stage (1600 CFM) was around .55" with clean MERV 10 filter (.15 on low - 800 CFM).
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