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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    north suburbs of Chicago
    Posts
    513

    New DOE mins. Waivers?

    Hey all. As you know in May 2013 many regions will have a new minimum efficiency for furnaces which will require condensing units. I have been notifying clients with older units about this and informing them of the added cost once we can no longer install 80%. I have also let them be aware of the difficulty venting a 90 in many cases.

    My question is, does anyone know of any waivers to this new law? Sure enough yesterday I was on a no heat call on one of the original Carrier 80's. That unit with the two boards, one up by the inducer. I got him going but told him he better decide before May what he wants to do. Sure enough this was a condo with no way possible to vent to the outdoors with PVC!

    He has a Bvent that runs up through second floor but I did not get into checking it out. This poses another question. Let's say you run into one of these scenes with say a straight shot chimney or Bvent that could be used as a chase for PVC. Years back I used the chimney as a means to run PVC for an Amana HTM/w dhw. My question is if this is doable as a last resort to vent PVC it means the water heater would have to be a PVC vent model as well. Has anyone tied a 90 furnace and fan vented PVC water heater into a common PVC vent?

    This DOE ruling is going to open up a rat nest!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    4,194
    Quote Originally Posted by Glennhvac View Post
    Has anyone tied a 90 furnace and fan vented PVC water heater into a common PVC vent?
    It is not allowed because the pipe is positive pressure and the exhaust will just back up into whatever appliance is not firing.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    somewhere between here and there
    Posts
    478
    been dealing with this for several years up in canada. can honestly say still have never ever run intosituation where i cant vent.

    a lot of time owners pissed about location.....but not my problem.

    rules are rules.

    i dont like it, but meh....whatever...as long as we all on same playing field


    Please, Please Please......keep the Factory Smoke in the Wires!!!!!


    Is it Rum'Oclock yet???

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    winnipeg
    Posts
    1,330
    have fun...... we lost 80 % furnaces 4 years ago..... venting the high effiicent ones can become challenging
    it was working.... played with it.... now its broke.... whats the going hourly rate for HVAC repair

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Calgary, Alberta
    Posts
    1,012
    Quote Originally Posted by carmon View Post
    have fun...... we lost 80 % furnaces 4 years ago..... venting the high effiicent ones can become challenging
    My boss was smart, when the import ban went into effect my boss bought 75 mids for the hard cases like townhouses and condos.
    Most cases if sidewall venting isn't possible we sell a PV hot water tank and run the pipes up the b-vent.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    winnipeg
    Posts
    1,330
    you can not install a mid anymore... your boss has 75 boat anchors
    it was working.... played with it.... now its broke.... whats the going hourly rate for HVAC repair

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Keokuk, IA
    Posts
    5,520
    At 80% tankless water heaters still allowed? Can you B-vent with any of those? If yes, you could install combi systems as a work around.

    I agree with others, where theres' a will, there a way for PVC venting. Basement hopper windows repalced with a sheet of plywood can work. My tankless and furnace are vented that way.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Pavilion, NY
    Posts
    2,015
    Last I heard they were going to use exemptions for situations such as condos and they are pondering that the exemptions would need to be made my Nate certified contractors. That was the last rumor I heard but who know what the truth is.
    ...

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Calgary, Alberta
    Posts
    1,012
    Quote Originally Posted by carmon View Post
    you can not install a mid anymore... your boss has 75 boat anchors
    That is incorrect. The law states that mid efficient furnaces cannot be imported anymore. We've installed nearly all 75 of them post-2010. All had permits pulled and all passed.

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