Advice for new HVAC unit - new construction - any advice?

[ENGRGRAD]

Hello experts,

I am a newbe currently getting estimates from HVAC professionals to provide a complete HVAC system for my new house (my friend is the GC and I am helping get quotes). The plans are complete. The house is a two-story (with walk out basement) covering a plan area of about 80x40. House is in mid-Michigan (Brighton) and there will be little to no shade trees around the house. Front of house faces south.

I am unsure as to what HVAC brands are better than others (i.e., are there ones to avoid) and I am looking for advice into what questions I should be asking HVAC professions when I call.

Due to the house size, my intuition is that the HVAC will be a two system arrangement (2 furnaces and AC units).

I was wondering about Coleman furnaces - one individual recommended them.

Just trying to get an idea of options that are out there. I want to do things right the first time.

Suggestions/recommendations are welcome. Also, if additional information is needed please ask.

Thanks

[Gross]

Brand, in my opinion( and consumer reports) has almost nothing to do with quality. Picking a qualified and thorough contractor is what matters the most

[George2]

I tend to agree with Cross regarding brands for the most part. I think we are all a little partial to certain brands that we are firmiliar with.

The bigger concern is the ductwork layout (placement) and sizing and proper equipment sizing.

Alot of HVAC contractors do not do new construction because it is so cut throat. I had loyal general contractors and I always tried to keep my quotes tight because I knew that competitors were always trying to get their foot in the door.

That said, I would bid other work and lose it by a $1,000 when the margins were only 3%-5%.

[carmon]

I agree brand not to important.... proper install. proper sizing. proper maintenance....all will be good... they all break

[dan sw fl]

Hello experts,

I am a newbe currently getting estimates from HVAC professionals to provide a complete HVAC system for my new house (my friend is the GC and I am helping get quotes).

The plans are complete. The house is a two-story (with walk out basement) covering a plan area of about 80x40.

House is in mid-Michigan (Brighton) and there will be little to no shade trees around the house. Front of house faces south.

I am unsure as to what HVAC brands are better than others (i.e., are there ones to avoid) and I am looking for advice into what questions I should be asking HVAC professions when I call.

I want to do things right the first time.

Suggestions/recommendations are welcome.
Also, if additional information is needed please ask.

You don't need to ASK Any questions.
with Completed plans.
The mechanical contractor needs to address your plans which you have stated ARE COMPLETE.
Complete must mean ADDRESSES ALL MECHANICAL and BUILDING THERMAL ENVELOPE ISSUES _ not Just finished.

_ Indoor thermostat set-points and % R.H. specified.

_ Plans and mechanical specs Complete.
_ Basement wall detail is provided.
_ Extended overhangs on West and South facing windows are detailed.
> ~ R-40 spray foamed underdeck roof?
_ < U 0.3 windows
+ > R-19 walls
__ Maximum length of flexible duct < 12 feet.

Outside air requirement with or without HEPA.
Maximum infiltration of < 0.2 ACH is stated for builder to adhere to.
Blower door test SHALL validate.
Maximum energy use is specified.

HVAC Equipment and installation budget given.

What types of heating and cooling?
Natural Gas is available?
Solar hot water heater?
Air or GSHP?

Geo, hybrid and/or radiant?
Radiant heating in which areas.
Space on lot has been designated for GEO-Thermal?

Humidifier.
5 inch, MERV 7 or 8 filter.
Where are the TWO Mechanical Rooms?
Do they minimize air distribution issues?

You did say plans are complete, correct?
RIGHT THE FIRST TIME.
Your Best local contractor is _ CMR Mechanical, Clare and Trevor.
http://www.cmrmechanical.com/

Any specific issues, my e-mail address is in my profile.

Send PDF of current plans so I can see what relatively complete actually means.

[dsprice]

All posts are correct when it comes to brand. A proper install and MAINTENANCE is what matters. Duct sizing and lay out is key.

[energy_rater_La]

man, I'd like to see house plans cover everything designer dan listed.
sure would make life simple!

name brands like trane & carrier have lower cost equipment
with different brand american standard, bryant.


always ask for bids with good better and best options.
good being 13 seer, better 15 -17 seer best 18+ seer.

get three bids that compare same size & efficiency equipment.

install is more important than brand.
while lots of things are included in a good install..
I always like to see load calc, not rule of thumb sizing.
design & sizing for ducts..not just on the job decisions
mastic seal of all ducts, equipment, plenums, returns & supply boxes.
not duct tape, not foil tape..mastic tape or paint mastic.
if anyone is sensitive to smells, avoid hvac caulks as they have strong
odor.

new construction is pretty cut throat. companies that do better installs
often don't get the job because they bid jobs with better practices.
companies that cut corners get more new construction jobs.
hvac isn't the place to save money...nor is it the place to go crazy either.
making informed educate choices will provide comfort and affordability
every day for the life of the unit.

shop wisely, and ask questions.

best of luck.

[ENGRGRAD]

To all - thanks for all of the information.

Sounds like I really need to touch base with designer Dan regarding the spefications he listed.

@ energy_rater- I agree. I am a consultant and I have lost jobs that I have bid for less than a few hundred dollars and I understand that it is difficult to have professionals look at new construction because of that reason. However, I will still persevere with alot of good advice from the forums and get a few bids and be back

[dan sw fl]

The plans are complete.
The house is a two-story (with walk out basement) covering a plan area of about 80x40.
House is in mid-Michigan (Brighton) and there will be little to no shade trees around the house. Front of house faces south.

Due to the house size, my intuition is that the HVAC will be a two system arrangement (2 furnaces and AC units).

I want to do things right the first time.

80 foot long house with a mechanical room that is not close-to-center
may create some real air distribution issues if the extended plenum (header)
is not long enough and sized properly.

Hopefully, the basement is ~9 foot high (bottom of floor joists) to accomodate a properly sized duct
and not seem unsightly
or create ceiling space issues when the basement is finished.

One system with 3 or 4 zones may be a relatively easy option to install in a large ranch ( 2 * 3,200 square feet)
if the thermal envelope is sufficient AND the INFILTRATION is Very low. Of course, one has to select
a mechanical contractor that is well experienced in designing and installing zoned systems.

[motoguy128]

I have a differnt idea for equipment since thsi is a very large luxury home. As large as this home is, you might even consider a boiler and use radiant heat for heating and look at a VRF (minisplit) system with 4 small airhandlers. Then install 2 centrally installed HRV system with exhaust on the bathrooms, dining and kitchen areas and fresh air ducted to the opposite air handlers on each floor. VRF unit will be a single outdoor unit or, it can even be water cooled and installed indoors on a geothermal ground loop, and will be a heat pump as well and can provide heat in the sprign and fall on cool morning when you don't need a lot of heat from the radiant system.... and where radiant can sometimes overcondition the space. Also, when entertaining, you can cool on area (kitchen, dining room) and simultaneously get "Free heat" in another.

The above I consider to be the ideal system. One step better is a small chiller and multiple air handlers with chilled nd hot water coils. Then supplement with radiant floor heat. You home is almost large enough that you might even consider going that route. I bet you'd be somewhere around 7-10 tons of capacity with regular insulation, less with spray foam.

[energy star]

If you want an efficient system, don't install any thing in the attic. Fact is , you should not cut or penetrate the second floor ceiling for grills, diffusers or recessed lights. That will save you more money than a system in the attic.

[dan sw fl]

I have a differnt idea for equipment since thsi is a very large luxury home. As large as this home is, you might even consider a boiler and use radiant heat for heating and look at a VRF (minisplit) system with 4 small airhandlers. Then install 2 centrally installed HRV system with exhaust on the bathrooms, dining and kitchen areas and fresh air ducted to the opposite air handlers on each floor. VRF unit will be a single outdoor unit or, it can even be water cooled and installed indoors on a geothermal ground loop, and will be a heat pump as well and can provide heat in the sprign and fall on cool morning when you don't need a lot of heat from the radiant system.... and where radiant can sometimes overcondition the space. Also, when entertaining, you can cool on area (kitchen, dining room) and simultaneously get "Free heat" in another.

The above I consider to be the ideal system. One step better is a small chiller and multiple air handlers with chilled nd hot water coils. Then supplement with radiant floor heat. You home is almost large enough that you might even consider going that route. I bet you'd be somewhere around 7-10 tons of capacity with regular insulation, less with spray foam.

YOU WOULD NEVER GET THIS JOB.!..!!...!!!
Your bid would be 3X's Mine.


ZONED :
3 tons + 1 ton Basement + dehumidifier ... 80,000 BTU/HR Max Natural Gas IF
ACH is Worked on to achieve < 0.2

Radiant heat would be a great enhancement for a few areas.

The only complexity is where's the best location for the mechanical room.

Of course , select the wrong contractor and the system never provides the comfort that SIMPLE Design can.

[motoguy128]

That's OK, I'm not a contractor. I'm a facility engineer.

This is a 6000sqft luxury home. It deserves optimum comfort if the HO is willing to pay for it. Nothing beats chilled water for humidity control and flexibility. But yes, more expensive for sure. You could save some costs by doing a 2 pipe set-up only, but dehumidificaiton won't be as good.

[Kevin Weaver]

I didn't read anyone elses posts, but IMO go with a geo-thermal heat pump and Zone it. Water Furnace would be one that I would consider. Can't beat the 30% tax credit currently in place. Water Furnace is made in northern Indiana.

[motoguy128]

I didn't read anyone elses posts, but IMO go with a geo-thermal heat pump and Zone it. Water Furnace would be one that I would consider. Can't beat the 30% tax credit currently in place. Water Furnace is made in northern Indiana.

With a 6000sqft house, a little up front capital for a ground loops shouldn't be a problem. At minimum, I'd still put in at least 2 sperate heat pumps. I would recommend 3 so the master suite (which I assume will be like 1000sqft alone) should have it's own temeprature control. Then children and gust rooms have another, and downstairs could have a conventional zone, or seperate ktichen and dining room (larger short term heat loads when entertaining) from the living room, family room spaces. If there is a dedicated home therater space, that shold have it's own zone and be calculated based on occupancy.