Locking "Fan = on" option from tenants

[Pete954]

How much does it cost to run a fan on a residential unit anyway? I understand about watching your pennies but I can't imagine this saving a substantial chunk of change.

[GAchillrtek]

Rant?

How's this:

Our society is based upon the low-bidder...it's nothing new. Companies and individuals forget that this is our nature as Americans...we want high quality for low $$ and expect the contractor to foot the bill if there is any issue with his high quality (that I had to shortcut to get his bid). The reality is that the low bidder will install inferior products with substandard workmanship so that he can get the project.

This is NOTHING new. What we, as dedicated HVAC professionals, fail to realize is that it applies to engineers, manufacturers and distributors as well. Yesterday I had the pleasure of explaining to a mechanical engineer of record (stamp and all on my plans) what happens when the dewpoint reaches the ambient. He had no clue!

In the end, the companies with the experience and knowledge are left behind in favor of spending less money for someone out of school that wants to learn. I have not only experienced this, I have seven (7) projects in progress ranging from 1.7 to 24.2 million. With the exception of one project, the General Contractor's PROJECT MANAGERS are in their 20's. The one exception is a PM that never shows up and has put one of the Superintendents in charge...again...in his 20's.

Now don't get me wrong, I have seen more individuals than I care to mention that have 20 years under their belt doing HVAC. Inevitably the first words out their mouths are ALWAYS "...I've been doing this XX years and I say..." Personally, I feel as though if you need to justify your knowledge to have your voice heard after "XX" years then you probably don't have a clue what you are talking about. I can't afford to listen to Mr. "XX" years...I can't afford to listen to fresh-out-of-college GC. I can only rely on my knowledge and the CONTRACT.

That is why I decided to finally post a question after being a member here for 7 years. I thought I would get some input because I received an "I've been doing this..." response from someone.

In the end, you know what? I figured it out myself...apparently I've been too bogged down to think straight...maybe I'm getting older...and yes Mr. "toocool", maybe I posted this in the wrong place.

I don't care gentlemen. I will continue to do the best work that I am allowed to do...BY CONTRACT (because that is how America works). Unfortunate? Absolutley! But I am a fighter and I change with the industry...otherwise I would be saying "I've been doing this for 27 years and I say...".

really man... really, all that for what, did i miss somthing?

[carmon]

let the fan run...let the fan run... let the fan run..... it is not expensive.... tenants deserve it.....

[teddy bear]

let the fan run...let the fan run... let the fan run..... it is not expensive.... tenants deserve it.....

This about more than let the fan operate in the "on" mode!
This is about fresh air ventilation when the wind is calm and there is no natural fresh air. All homes need an fresh air change in 4-5 hours when occupied.
This is about maintain <50%RH when outdoor dew points are +55^F to avoid mold/dustmites/biologicals.
In an affort to keep the %RH low, the designers are dictating "avoid fan "on" mode. Yes, it helps keep the %RH down, does little to provide overall indoor air quality. This is old thinking. While helping reduce indoor %RH duing low cooling loads, ducts grow mold, circulation of moist, fresh air must be avoided, and the moisture added by the occupants is not removed.
This is flawed indoor air quality strategy for any green grass climate for any home.
An air of fresh air in 4-5 hours is must for all occupied homes, not just that can have the best. The buildup of indoor chemical pollutants is affecting health in many suttle ways. The buildup of indoor moisture as generates many not totally understood biolobical pollutants.
Adding a filtered mechanical fresh air fan and a good dehumidifier allow air circulation, filtering, and real comfort.
The new small, whole house ventilating dehumidifier is a package that combines all of the needed feature to provide a simple solution to all of the above many IAQ problems and ultimate comfort at a reasonable price. This is the idea of the Ultra-Aire, Honeywell and other small whole house systems.
Regards TB
Real indoor air.

[motoguy128]

How much does it cost to run a fan on a residential unit anyway? I understand about watching your pennies but I can't imagine this saving a substantial chunk of change.

Well if it's a fairly small system and the mtoor only draws 200watts, @ $0.10/kw-hr and if it would normally only run about 30% of the time in "auto", that's $184/yr. That's why for those that like to run the fan continously, a ECM motor can save around $100-150/year in electricity. More when you also factor in the bump in SEER as well.

[nsula_country]

The blower control board had a bad relay on one of my personal air handlers in my new house. Brand new unit. After the first time I started the unit the relay stuck "ON". My X13 motor ran for about 3 weeks before I obtained a warranty board and replaced it (my fault, more important issues). The electrical usage was probably negligible, or about as much as a 2 bulb motion light. It did keep the air exchanged!

CT

[tedkidd]

No diy, and it does not matter who pays the bills if I am living in a house and want to circulate the air I should have that option. Especially if the Govt is paying the bill. Some maintenance guy with a Bright idea should not determine that. If it is a shared space all the more reason to run fan as to not have to deal with unknown smells. If shared HVAC on multi unit house then LL is too cheap to do it correctly with seperate units. JMHO.

You are asking for widow openings. Letting them run fan is cheaper then driving them to windows. Tight buildings need air circulation.

Wifi thermostats are the true answer. KNOW what the occupants are doing over time rather than guessing. If you make that pitch it even more firmly puts onus of failure and brand of incompetence upon them.

[Pete954]

Well if it's a fairly small system and the mtoor only draws 200watts, @ $0.10/kw-hr and if it would normally only run about 30% of the time in "auto", that's $184/yr. That's why for those that like to run the fan continously, a ECM motor can save around $100-150/year in electricity. More when you also factor in the bump in SEER as well.

You seem to know what you're talking about but if I understand correctly by your math it would cost $72 per month just for the evap fan. I don't think it costs that much to run the whole system in the middle of summer.

[tedkidd]

2c per hour looks like 48c per day which runs out to $15 per month. I think you maybe used 31 days a month and doubled when you should have halved.

[CraziFuzzy]

You guys keep talking about fresh air, and that's why the fan should run... Must likely, though, there is no fresh air intake on these units, so all the fan is doing is filtering, and mixing within the space.

[GAchillrtek]

You guys keep talking about fresh air, and that's why the fan should run... Must likely, though, there is no fresh air intake on these units, so all the fan is doing is filtering, and mixing within the space.

[tedkidd]

You guys keep talking about fresh air, and that's why the fan should run... Must likely, though, there is no fresh air intake on these units, so all the fan is doing is filtering, and mixing within the space.

That only happens if the duct work is perfectly sealed and the house is perfectly sealed.

When equipment runs there is typically positive pressure in one area and negative pressure in another. Often bedrooms have only supplies, and some living space has more returns. The air in the positively pressured space does not cooperatively return 100% to the furnace - it follows the path of least resistance - some of which will be out cracks and leaks in the duct or room. Leakage may increase when doors are closed.

The air in the negatively pressured space does not cooperatively come 100% from the house - it comes from the path of least resistance - some of which will be in cracks and leaks in the duct or room.

So even without fresh air intake, you are getting some amount of "fresh" air.


Whether that "fresh" air is primarily coming from moldy crawl spaces on it's way into poorly paned returns is another matter.