Locking "Fan = on" option from tenants

[zensgreedyfly]

Equipment: new Goodman GKS9 furnaces. Conventional split systems: Condenser, furnace, coil..no heat pumps.

Here's the issue:

I do not want tenants to have the option to run the system with the fan = "on"...I only want the fan to come on when there is a call for heat or cool.

Can anyone suggest a solution other than thermostat lockout?

I'm sure this can be handled with a 24V relay, but I could use some polishing on which one and how to wire it in.

[toocoolforschool]

Since this is tech to tech chat it may be in wrong area.
Any ways I would not think that a landlord would want to hinder a tenants comfort by forcing them not to operate their system as desired, after all they do pay their own bills correct?

[LKJoel]

Remove G wire from stat. Install DPDT relay in furnace to activate the R to G and R to Y connections on a cooling call from stat. (Y from stat will now only go to relay coil)

Hope this helps

If the furnace had a dedicated "fan on" speed on the board you could simply remove that fan wire

[zensgreedyfly]

They do not pay the electric bills...Military base

Thanks LK

[LKJoel]

I was of course assuming the OP is an HVAC tech

Lots of LL cover utilities. Especially if its a house with separate living units and common HVAC

[toocoolforschool]

I was of course assuming the OP is an HVAC tech

Lots of LL cover utilities. Especially if its a house with separate living units and common HVAC

No diy, and it does not matter who pays the bills if I am living in a house and want to circulate the air I should have that option. Especially if the Govt is paying the bill. Some maintenance guy with a Bright idea should not determine that. If it is a shared space all the more reason to run fan as to not have to deal with unknown smells. If shared HVAC on multi unit house then LL is too cheap to do it correctly with seperate units. JMHO.

[zensgreedyfly]

So I'm beating up the wiring diagrams and coming up with a game plan when it snapped:

Take green off of "G" at the stat and insert into "Y" with the yellow.

Duh@me...I guess I just needed to stare at it for a minute.

Thanks for the help.

[zensgreedyfly]

There are other variables that are influencing the decision to remove Fan=on. Outside air in a coastal humid climate, EXTREMELY tight home construction, negative and positive pressures that are screwing the dewpoints and air changes. I would love to go into details on how the mechanical engineer screwed up, but that's not the point. The engineer of record has come up with this band aid Sequence of Operation that we all know will not solve the issue, but all expert opinion has fallen on deaf ears when the engineer of record takes liability for his actions.

There is, and always will be, a push to idiot-proof new construction. Especially with the new tightness, high efficiencies and unproven products that save a couple bucks on the bills, but cost a fortune in remediation.

[teddy bear]

There are other variables that are influencing the decision to remove Fan=on. Outside air in a coastal humid climate, EXTREMELY tight home construction, negative and positive pressures that are screwing the dewpoints and air changes. I would love to go into details on how the mechanical engineer screwed up, but that's not the point. The engineer of record has come up with this band aid Sequence of Operation that we all know will not solve the issue, but all expert opinion has fallen on deaf ears when the engineer of record takes liability for his actions.

There is, and always will be, a push to idiot-proof new construction. Especially with the new tightness, high efficiencies and unproven products that save a couple bucks on the bills, but cost a fortune in remediation.

The is most unfortunate. No fresh air ventilation, no recirculation, and no indoor air quality during certain weather conditions. Any quality home should have a fresh air change in 4-5 hours when occupied. In addition, the home should be <50%RH all the time.
When home owners and a/c designers deside to not design this as part of the system, the home owners live with the results. When our government provides provides housing, you would assume that the occupants are getting state of the art indoor air quality.
Here is our recommendation, get a good air filter.
So much for that.
Add a small whole house ventilating dehumidifier, you get fresh air venitlation, air circulationfiltering, and <50%RH. These are basics of good indoor air quality.
Regards TB

[Hwolfe]

You would think the guys fighting for our country would get the top of the line product out there however. When it comes to the government there check goes to the lowest bidder.

[toocoolforschool]

so much for my rant.

[zensgreedyfly]

Rant?

How's this:

Our society is based upon the low-bidder...it's nothing new. Companies and individuals forget that this is our nature as Americans...we want high quality for low $$ and expect the contractor to foot the bill if there is any issue with his high quality (that I had to shortcut to get his bid). The reality is that the low bidder will install inferior products with substandard workmanship so that he can get the project.

This is NOTHING new. What we, as dedicated HVAC professionals, fail to realize is that it applies to engineers, manufacturers and distributors as well. Yesterday I had the pleasure of explaining to a mechanical engineer of record (stamp and all on my plans) what happens when the dewpoint reaches the ambient. He had no clue!

In the end, the companies with the experience and knowledge are left behind in favor of spending less money for someone out of school that wants to learn. I have not only experienced this, I have seven (7) projects in progress ranging from 1.7 to 24.2 million. With the exception of one project, the General Contractor's PROJECT MANAGERS are in their 20's. The one exception is a PM that never shows up and has put one of the Superintendents in charge...again...in his 20's.

Now don't get me wrong, I have seen more individuals than I care to mention that have 20 years under their belt doing HVAC. Inevitably the first words out their mouths are ALWAYS "...I've been doing this XX years and I say..." Personally, I feel as though if you need to justify your knowledge to have your voice heard after "XX" years then you probably don't have a clue what you are talking about. I can't afford to listen to Mr. "XX" years...I can't afford to listen to fresh-out-of-college GC. I can only rely on my knowledge and the CONTRACT.

That is why I decided to finally post a question after being a member here for 7 years. I thought I would get some input because I received an "I've been doing this..." response from someone.

In the end, you know what? I figured it out myself...apparently I've been too bogged down to think straight...maybe I'm getting older...and yes Mr. "toocool", maybe I posted this in the wrong place.

I don't care gentlemen. I will continue to do the best work that I am allowed to do...BY CONTRACT (because that is how America works). Unfortunate? Absolutley! But I am a fighter and I change with the industry...otherwise I would be saying "I've been doing this for 27 years and I say...".

[wanttosee]

Looking at the GSK9 wiring diagram I don't see anything that would lead me to believe that when the call for heat comes from the thermostat, the blower will start running. I've been doing this for 4 years if it helps. Though it does look like if you activate Y, the air handler will sense that and start the fan in "cooling speed". Then again, the diagram isn't as detailed as it could be. Try just disconnecting G and see if everything works automagically.