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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Mandeville, LA
    Posts
    6

    Locking "Fan = on" option from tenants

    Equipment: new Goodman GKS9 furnaces. Conventional split systems: Condenser, furnace, coil..no heat pumps.

    Here's the issue:

    I do not want tenants to have the option to run the system with the fan = "on"...I only want the fan to come on when there is a call for heat or cool.

    Can anyone suggest a solution other than thermostat lockout?

    I'm sure this can be handled with a 24V relay, but I could use some polishing on which one and how to wire it in.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    2,573
    Since this is tech to tech chat it may be in wrong area.
    Any ways I would not think that a landlord would want to hinder a tenants comfort by forcing them not to operate their system as desired, after all they do pay their own bills correct?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Ontario Canada
    Posts
    534
    Remove G wire from stat. Install DPDT relay in furnace to activate the R to G and R to Y connections on a cooling call from stat. (Y from stat will now only go to relay coil)

    Hope this helps

    If the furnace had a dedicated "fan on" speed on the board you could simply remove that fan wire

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Mandeville, LA
    Posts
    6
    They do not pay the electric bills...Military base

    Thanks LK

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    84
    Quote Originally Posted by zensgreedyfly View Post
    They do not pay the electric bills...Military base

    Thanks LK
    The military isn't footing the bill - we are - And I say "Give them boys the right to choose their own fan option!!"

    Seriously though, what's the point of of having a heating or cooling system if you aren't able to use it how you feel comfortable? Zen, tell whoever asked you to disable the fan-on that they are taking the "V" out of HVAC! Fan-on is way cheaper than AC on, just saying.....


    "I don't know why it be like it is, but it do"

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Ontario Canada
    Posts
    534
    I was of course assuming the OP is an HVAC tech

    Lots of LL cover utilities. Especially if its a house with separate living units and common HVAC

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    2,573
    Quote Originally Posted by LKJoel View Post
    I was of course assuming the OP is an HVAC tech

    Lots of LL cover utilities. Especially if its a house with separate living units and common HVAC
    No diy, and it does not matter who pays the bills if I am living in a house and want to circulate the air I should have that option. Especially if the Govt is paying the bill. Some maintenance guy with a Bright idea should not determine that. If it is a shared space all the more reason to run fan as to not have to deal with unknown smells. If shared HVAC on multi unit house then LL is too cheap to do it correctly with seperate units. JMHO.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Mandeville, LA
    Posts
    6
    There are other variables that are influencing the decision to remove Fan=on. Outside air in a coastal humid climate, EXTREMELY tight home construction, negative and positive pressures that are screwing the dewpoints and air changes. I would love to go into details on how the mechanical engineer screwed up, but that's not the point. The engineer of record has come up with this band aid Sequence of Operation that we all know will not solve the issue, but all expert opinion has fallen on deaf ears when the engineer of record takes liability for his actions.

    There is, and always will be, a push to idiot-proof new construction. Especially with the new tightness, high efficiencies and unproven products that save a couple bucks on the bills, but cost a fortune in remediation.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Madison, WI/Cape Coral, FL
    Posts
    6,255
    Quote Originally Posted by zensgreedyfly View Post
    There are other variables that are influencing the decision to remove Fan=on. Outside air in a coastal humid climate, EXTREMELY tight home construction, negative and positive pressures that are screwing the dewpoints and air changes. I would love to go into details on how the mechanical engineer screwed up, but that's not the point. The engineer of record has come up with this band aid Sequence of Operation that we all know will not solve the issue, but all expert opinion has fallen on deaf ears when the engineer of record takes liability for his actions.

    There is, and always will be, a push to idiot-proof new construction. Especially with the new tightness, high efficiencies and unproven products that save a couple bucks on the bills, but cost a fortune in remediation.
    The is most unfortunate. No fresh air ventilation, no recirculation, and no indoor air quality during certain weather conditions. Any quality home should have a fresh air change in 4-5 hours when occupied. In addition, the home should be <50%RH all the time.
    When home owners and a/c designers deside to not design this as part of the system, the home owners live with the results. When our government provides provides housing, you would assume that the occupants are getting state of the art indoor air quality.
    Here is our recommendation, get a good air filter.
    So much for that.
    Add a small whole house ventilating dehumidifier, you get fresh air venitlation, air circulationfiltering, and <50%RH. These are basics of good indoor air quality.
    Regards TB
    Bear Rules: Keep our home <50% RH summer, controls mites/mold and very comfortable.
    Provide 60-100 cfm of fresh air when occupied to purge indoor pollutants and keep window dry during cold weather. T-stat setup/setback +8 hrs. saves energy
    Use +Merv 10 air filter. -Don't forget the "Golden Rule"

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Pompano Bch, S Fla
    Posts
    57
    How much does it cost to run a fan on a residential unit anyway? I understand about watching your pennies but I can't imagine this saving a substantial chunk of change.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Keokuk, IA
    Posts
    5,520
    Quote Originally Posted by Pete954 View Post
    How much does it cost to run a fan on a residential unit anyway? I understand about watching your pennies but I can't imagine this saving a substantial chunk of change.
    Well if it's a fairly small system and the mtoor only draws 200watts, @ $0.10/kw-hr and if it would normally only run about 30% of the time in "auto", that's $184/yr. That's why for those that like to run the fan continously, a ECM motor can save around $100-150/year in electricity. More when you also factor in the bump in SEER as well.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Rochester NY
    Posts
    4,696
    Quote Originally Posted by toocoolforschool View Post
    No diy, and it does not matter who pays the bills if I am living in a house and want to circulate the air I should have that option. Especially if the Govt is paying the bill. Some maintenance guy with a Bright idea should not determine that. If it is a shared space all the more reason to run fan as to not have to deal with unknown smells. If shared HVAC on multi unit house then LL is too cheap to do it correctly with seperate units. JMHO.
    You are asking for widow openings. Letting them run fan is cheaper then driving them to windows. Tight buildings need air circulation.

    Wifi thermostats are the true answer. KNOW what the occupants are doing over time rather than guessing. If you make that pitch it even more firmly puts onus of failure and brand of incompetence upon them.
    Which makes more sense to you?
    CONSERVATION - turning your thermostat back and being uncomfortable. Maybe saving 5-10%
    ENERGY EFFICIENCY - leaving your thermostat where everyone is comfortable. Saving 30-70%

    DO THE NUMBERS! Step on a HOMESCALE.
    What is comfort? Well, it AIN'T just TEMPERATURE!

    Energy Obese? An audit is the next step - go to BPI.org, or RESNET, and find an auditor near you.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Mandeville, LA
    Posts
    6
    So I'm beating up the wiring diagrams and coming up with a game plan when it snapped:

    Take green off of "G" at the stat and insert into "Y" with the yellow.

    Duh@me...I guess I just needed to stare at it for a minute.

    Thanks for the help.

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