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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Fort Worth\Dallas, Texas
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    1,694
    Well we made the leap to Honeywell Webs. I go to the certification school at the end of the month. I am looking forward to not having the hassle of setting up SymmetrE systems anymore.

    Anybody done any medium to large Honeywell Webs jobs that they would like share any feedback on, good or bad?

    Also interested in input from others that are doing tridium AX that had no prior tridium experience. How is the learning curve?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Virginia
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    1,144
    The learning curve is drastic. At least for me it was. I actually over complicated it, which made it seem hard at first, but after about a week or two devoted to it, it turned out to be very easy and straight forward.

    The limitations you will come up against are usually found with the controllers, and not AX. For example I had a job that included a CVRTU with hot gas reheat. I ASSUMED that I could pull any information I wanted from a T7350, NOPE!, HW has no points for reading current RH or even a RH setpoint, it must be done through the "wizard".

    Programming the 15c through the AX frontend is also a chore, I am going to a class in a few weeks that Hutchey is giving, I am hoping he teaches some easier methods, as I find using the 15c wizard leaving a lot to be desired. To get around this hassle, and expand options, I find using the 201 controller as my fully programmables to be much easier and more bang for the buck. I pretty much stopped buying 15c's and use 201 instead. HW is getting ready to offer a 128meg 201 also, which will be even better.

    If you dont know JAVA, I suggest thinking about picking up a book or something and starting to learn it.


  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Fort Worth\Dallas, Texas
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    I just went to a class Hutchey did about two weeks ago, but since I am not using Webs yet mosst of the stuff flew right over my head. We did go through some 15C programming and it looked daunting.

    I do not know Java, but I will probably try to start learning it. I am currently trying to learn Basic, so I will probably have to put that aside and concentrate on Java for now.

    Rumor also is that Honeywell is comming out with controller/or controllers that are along the ASC line, but will also be freely programmable.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    1,144
    The class I am going to is only open to those that are certified AX, you have to bring a JACE, 15c, and 10 to the class with you. I wonder if its the same type you went to?

    HW is going to release the Gen2 XL10 controllers this year, I had some pictures of them from when I went to Tridium HQ in richmond earlier this year. Took them with my camera phone, then I was switching SIM cards and "POOF" they got deleted.

    AMIGO! I SAID POOF AGAIN!

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Fort Worth\Dallas, Texas
    Posts
    1,694
    That is the same class I went to. We were the only ones in the class not certified. We go to every class that Hutchey does when he is in our area.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    steeler nation
    Posts
    2,027
    we are also making the move to webs. lcbs to webs, now thats a jump! i was told the new controllers are webs only and called piranah or spider. they are supposed to have a few basic physical configurations but can be quickly configured to mimic the xl10's. i also heard they were .....bacnet.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    9,564
    I heard the "bacnet" lineup also.

    They want to have the same situation Invensys has with their "bacnet" controllers. I have a really good Tridium Integrator nearby that was just laughing about how great it would be with their new "bacnet" Invensys controllers because it was like having a proprietary line attached to their Tridium box...

    ASHRAE has done a good job of diluting anything open on the fieldbus. I'm just happy Tridium came along and is beating them up silly at the supervisory level. They deserve it.

  8. #8
    We haven't made the WebsAX leap yet.
    Webs doesn't seem to line up properly when compared to the largest SymmetrE installations. (at least in terms of $$)
    There are also a number of other issues we are contending with.

    The bottom line is that We are not sure that WebsAX is going to be the final direction that Honeywell is moving towards. And we have been very succesfull with SymmetrE

    Another few months should tell if we made the right choice by holding off on our decision.


    As far as any future BACNet stuff coming out, I'm not the biggest fan of BACNet. But if one company (Like Honeywell) decide to adopt BACNet on both the controller level AND user interface level. Then I'm willing to think of it as a replacement protocol (to C-Bus), as long as the company (Honeywell)commits to getting it working between the two levels.

    Anybody watching Honeywells European Website. The XLWEB controller doesn't seem to be going away.

    The new SymmetrE (and CARE) versions are loaded with documentation on the XLWEB Also

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
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    Fort Worth\Dallas, Texas
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    We originally thought that Webs was more expensive when compared to SymmetrE, but upon second glance this does not seem to be true. Webs appears to be cheaper when you look at the whole overall picture.

    We will soon find out.

    No more synchronization! Yeah!

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Virginia
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    I dont see AX going away anytime soon. Look for the 15b to have a AX chip in it very soon as well.

    The Gen2 XL10 controllers will be in two flavors, LON for us indys, and Bacnet for the HW guys.

    I think SymmetrE will be fading out in the eyes if the indys.

    This is just info I am being told at least, not directly from the CEO or anything, but close enough for me to believe.

  11. #11
    I agree that Synchronization is a bad thing.

    I just wonder what the opposite of Synchronization is.

    The centralized management of large lon networks never really took into account multiple people working with multiple sections of a network at the same time. (I know about the remote LNS logon stuff. Don't jump all over me sysint, I understand the need for the LNS database)

    Honeywell made it 1000% tougher with the CARE/LNS synchronization. They made it really tough for the field techs to continue working the way they were used to with CARE.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
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    Fort Worth\Dallas, Texas
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    1,694
    Chooesewisely

    Just currious, are you using R310 yet, and what version of Care.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    9,564
    The centralized management of large lon networks never really took into account multiple people working with multiple sections of a network at the same time. (I know about the remote LNS logon stuff. Don't jump all over me sysint, I understand the need for the LNS database)
    - I think that's more a matter of companies like H-well and TAC and not LNS.
    I have sites with LNS Turbo running 3-5 users and it's not an issue having to do any synchronization.
    What I'm really looking for is to as somebody else put it: Minimize repeat contact with Datapoints...

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