Tridium/XL10 VAV controller Questions

**apprentice3** · 08-30-2012, 04:32 PM

My company is working into doing some Tridium AX controls. Today a customer of ours wanted us to navigate around the system and do some various changes.

The first thing he wanted us to do was to bring the VAV box actual CFM flow to each graphic. We ended up doing it to one, and it did the change on all of them. Which for this situation was a good thing, but I was wondering how to make graphical changes only to the VAV box your editing. I also couldn't find any tools to create new graphical devices. Where are all of the tools to create new graphical status points, and text points?

Another thing we were trying to do was install DA sensors on AI2 as per the wiring diagram on the XL10 controllers. We went into the VAV configuration, and configured it for AI2 = DA Sensor. We committed the configuration. We tried to discover the right NVO. The only one that even looked close to what we needed was a NVO that reassembled the Raw AI2 IO. The fact that is was raw I believe made the values show up wrong. The DA sensor is a 20 k sensor at 77 degrees. What do we need to do to allow this NVO to read the actual temperature correctly for these XL10 controllers? We tried to do some sort of conversion formula with no sucess. The temperature sensor shows like 23450 in it's default state.

Is there a actual DA Sensor NVO on the XL10? We saw something about CntrlDataG_DATemp. I don't know what this means, but this point didn't appear to be valid.

Any help on these issues will be much appreciated... We are scheduled to take the next AX training class when it comes back to town.

Thanks A lot.

**mechmike2** · 08-30-2012, 08:03 PM

I use the kitpx to create most bound point graphics. If you use the numeric/boolean/enumerated images,depending on point type, then pick the graphic you want to display when the point is at the specified state.

**apprentice3** · 08-30-2012, 08:14 PM

Originally Posted by mechmike2

I use the kitpx to create most bound point graphics. If you use the numeric/boolean/enumerated images,depending on point type, then pick the graphic you want to display when the point is at the specified state.

Where is this kitpx located on workbench? Any ideas on trying to bring a 20k sensor into tridium from the XL10 AI2?

**hvac69** · 08-30-2012, 08:24 PM

Proxy Ext nvoData/siDischargeTempS7

How did you add the point to the graphics? I am assuming they used one graphic for all the VAVs.

**apprentice3** · 08-30-2012, 08:35 PM

Originally Posted by hvac69

Proxy Ext nvoData/siDischargeTempS7

How did you add the point to the graphics? I am assuming they used one graphic for all the VAVs.

The weird thing is that Proxy EXT NVOData/siDischargeTempS7 is showing invalid figures. It shows like 23359. Do we have to do some sort of conversion formula to bring it down to true 20k at 77 degree values? They did use one graphic for all of the VAVs. The one point we did add we just went into the editor on the top center of the screen and made a duplicate and rebound the links. It ended up changing all of the graphics which was okay on that particular point, but once we do discharge air. We would like to only do it to certain ones.. I don't know how to change just one of the graphics...

**mechmike2** · 08-30-2012, 08:47 PM

Do the VAVs have reheat on them?

**hvac69** · 08-30-2012, 08:47 PM

The only way that I know how to make graphic changes for a specific controller if it was originally done using relativized ords and/or a common graphic would be to name the point differently in the controller you want. You could even just duplicate the original point leaving the original and using the one you duplicated in case someone later wants to add it to all or they are using it for some other purpose that you may not be aware of. Make a new graphic point using your modified name and use hide on degrade. This way any controllers that do not have that exact named point the graphic point will be hidden.

**mechmike2** · 08-30-2012, 08:52 PM

Kitpx is located in your palette.Click on side bars icon and chose palette, if first time click folder and fin what you want to open.

**apprentice3** · 08-30-2012, 09:00 PM

Originally Posted by mechmike2

Do the VAVs have reheat on them?

The VAVs that we want to add the DA sensors to do have H.W. Reheat. If I hook up to the controller directly with Lonspec it shows a valid temperature reading, but when I look at the NVO listed above and the NVO RawAI2 it shows a really high number.

**apprentice3** · 08-30-2012, 09:01 PM

Originally Posted by hvac69

The only way that I know how to make graphic changes for a specific controller if it was originally done using relativized ords and/or a common graphic would be to name the point differently in the controller you want. You could even just duplicate the original point leaving the original and using the one you duplicated in case someone later wants to add it to all or they are using it for some other purpose that you may not be aware of. Make a new graphic point using your modified name and use hide on degrade. This way any controllers that do not have that exact named point the graphic point will be hidden.

That makes a lot of sense.. Thanks alot!

**hvac69** · 08-30-2012, 09:16 PM

Under the device properties do you have a Xml file listed? I am using that exact point for over 80 controllers on a old 3.1.29 job and no conversion was needed.

**apprentice3** · 08-30-2012, 09:20 PM

Originally Posted by hvac69

Under the device properties do you have a Xml file listed? I am using that exact point for over 80 controllers on a old 3.1.29 job and no conversion was needed.

That is something I will need to look at. So does that point reference the value on AI2 on the controller? Is there a certain Xml file I should be looking for? If it isn't there where can I get it at? Would I have a problem if the controller isn't configured for a DA sensor on AI2.. I know I went into that particular XL10 configuration wizard and changed AI2 to DA sensor. I clicked on commit to send the configuration to the controller. Is that all I have to do to the controller itself?

Thanks!

**hvac69** · 08-30-2012, 10:51 PM

I have never used the AX Wizards, I have always used Lon Spec for configuration changes. The site I am referencing does not use the wizard and devices were added as dynamic devices. If you are using the Wizards then your Xml file should be fine. lonhoneywellAXWizards/Vav2101801.lnml. I think commit is the same as Save and that is it and does not download the config, but as I said I have never used the Wizards.

**apprentice3** · 08-31-2012, 05:50 AM

Originally Posted by hvac69

I have never used the AX Wizards, I have always used Lon Spec for configuration changes. The site I am referencing does not use the wizard and devices were added as dynamic devices. If you are using the Wizards then your Xml file should be fine. lonhoneywellAXWizards/Vav2101801.lnml. I think commit is the same as Save and that is it and does not download the config, but as I said I have never used the Wizards.

I hope I was looking at things right on Lonspec. When I connect to a new network that I haven't connected to before in Lonspec how do I set things up to bring in the controllers on a new network? I want to make sure that I am doing this right. I haven't messed with Lonspec in about 7 years. When I go to connect it tells me that I am connected. Do I have to figure out domain, channel, etc.?

Thanks

**hvac69** · 08-31-2012, 06:29 AM

If you dont have the original database you can be headed for a world of headaches, like lost Lon links, node IDs getting changed and etc. DONT SELECT COMMISSION. You will need to look at the lon network config in the JACE to get an idea of how things are configured and you can use AX to find Lon links. If all you want to do is look at configs, make new project, add subnet, connect then make network, then add the discovered controllers then upload them. You will be able to see the configs and monitor, once again DONT COMMISSION.

**RACLman** · 08-31-2012, 01:17 PM

If you already have a complete database in AX why would you want to bring Lonspec into the picture. Why not just load the Ax Wizards on the JACE and modify the XL10's
in your AX database. Seems like alot less work and allows you to service the XL10s directly from AX. Things can get hairy when you introduce multiple software tools to
service a common controller.

**apprentice3** · 08-31-2012, 08:01 PM

Originally Posted by RACLman

If you already have a complete database in AX why would you want to bring Lonspec into the picture. Why not just load the Ax Wizards on the JACE and modify the XL10's
in your AX database. Seems like alot less work and allows you to service the XL10s directly from AX. Things can get hairy when you introduce multiple software tools to
service a common controller.

I am new to AX, and I may already have the wizard. Does it look just like the screen does in Lonspec? How can I get these AX wizards? How do I download them into the JACE? I know I went into a VAV XL10 configuration screen and changed AI2 to the DA sensor, and clicked commit... Is that the wizard, and does commiting actually send the configuration? If not how do I send the configuration? Thanks for the help.

**RACLman** · 09-01-2012, 08:23 AM

If you had the XL10 configuration screen available in AX then the Wizards are already installed on the JACE. The Commit button only saves the changes to the AX database, you will still have to download the changes to the controller. The download option should be available under the actions menu of the XL10 controller.

**apprentice3** · 09-01-2012, 08:36 AM

Originally Posted by RACLman

If you had the XL10 configuration screen available in AX then the Wizards are already installed on the JACE. The Commit button only saves the changes to the AX database, you will still have to download the changes to the controller. The download option should be available under the actions menu of the XL10 controller.

Thanks for all of the help. I thought I checked the action menu, but there is just so much stuff going on, on that screen.
I appreciate all the help everyone.

Thanks

**apprentice3** · 09-05-2012, 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by RACLman

If you had the XL10 configuration screen available in AX then the Wizards are already installed on the JACE. The Commit button only saves the changes to the AX database, you will still have to download the changes to the controller. The download option should be available under the actions menu of the XL10 controller.

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I was talking to my local AX dealer, and he told me that this job may be more complicated now. I have taken a picture of a few of the controllers in a panel near work bench. My local rep. told me that the Neopsis controllers in the picture are CBUS drivers for a old CARE system. He told me depending on how things are set up I may not be able to bring in the discharge air temperatures easily.. I wanted to see what you guys thought about this... Should I still be able to see the DAT value in Tridium? Or do I have to reconfigure things on the CBUS side of things for the Tridium system to see it? Was there an easier way to do this system rather than using the drivers? Couldn't they just tie all of the XL10s into the Lon network on each JACE rather than trying to convert CBUS to Lon? What is the benefit of doing things the way that they did?

Thanks!