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  1. #1

    Questions on HVAC install in a Church

    Very new to HVAC talk . Can you install a 4 ton indoor air handler within the room of the main church but not above a ceiling and can you have an open return with no ductwork on the return side ? As well do you have to install smoke detector? The building is an older office building and is going to be church. It has no fire system installed. The ceiling is 14 high and the floor this unit is serving is about 1200 square feet and has to also cool a mens and ladies room with three stalls each.
    Last edited by fkphvac; 09-29-2012 at 05:02 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
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    1,677
    Maybe if David Copperfield installs it..... Thanks I'll be here all week....Try the veal

    There are very specific requirements needed to calculate the load for a church or any space that has
    people adding to the actual load of the building.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2000
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    Indianapolis, IN, USA
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    Probably could do that but any return right of an air handler will be LOUD. I'd have some ductwork and what you have should be lined to absorb sound. Have to check code on the smoke detector, usually used if over 5 tons/2000 CFM but there could be requirements in your area that call for one just being commercial.

  4. #4
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    Jul 2008
    Location
    Rochester NY
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    4,763
    Loony, how about a mod with ECM and media filter? Think that might not be too noisy, particularly on lower stages?
    Which makes more sense to you?
    CONSERVATION - turning your thermostat back and being uncomfortable. Maybe saving 5-10%
    ENERGY EFFICIENCY - leaving your thermostat where everyone is comfortable. Saving 30-70%

    DO THE NUMBERS! Step on a HOMESCALE.
    What is comfort? Well, it AIN'T just TEMPERATURE!

    Energy Obese? An audit is the next step - go to BPI.org, or RESNET, and find an auditor near you.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2000
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    Indianapolis, IN, USA
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    That would help though on cooling it will run 100%. Still think some kind of return box or ducting with liner will be desirable.

  6. #6
    Join Date
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    PA
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    1600 CFM through a coil opening is gonna be about the same amount of noise weather its a PSC, X13, or VS ECM blower. A return plenum and some duct will help a lot.

    4 tons, for a 1200 SQ FT church? might be cutting it close, probably under sized for the people load alone. Might need close to 5 tons for teh people load alone. How many members can it seat. you will have to provide fresh air, that adds a lot to the cooling load.
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    How many times must one fix something before it is fixed?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
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    Location and number of occupants? Fresh make-up air?
    Regards TB
    Bear Rules: Keep our home <50% RH summer, controls mites/mold and very comfortable.
    Provide 60-100 cfm of fresh air when occupied to purge indoor pollutants and keep window dry during cold weather. T-stat setup/setback +8 hrs. saves energy
    Use +Merv 10 air filter. -Don't forget the "Golden Rule"

  8. #8
    Join Date
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    Emerald Coast
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    965
    Quote Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
    4 tons, for a 1200 SQ FT church? might be cutting it close, probably under sized for the people load alone. Might need close to 5 tons for teh people load alone. How many members can it seat. you will have to provide fresh air, that adds a lot to the cooling load.
    .

    Yep, I'm thinking an "air and a spare".

    Primary to maintain comfort without the people load and a second for catch up.

    What area is the Church located?
    ..
    Do not attempt vast projects with
    half vast experience and ideas.
    ...

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Rochester NY
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    4,763
    Quote Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
    1600 CFM through a coil opening is gonna be about the same amount of noise weather its a PSC, X13, or VS ECM blower. A return plenum and some duct will help a lot.

    4 tons, for a 1200 SQ FT church? might be cutting it close, probably under sized for the people load alone. Might need close to 5 tons for teh people load alone. How many members can it seat. you will have to provide fresh air, that adds a lot to the cooling load.
    And co2 monitor so people dont fall asleep...
    Which makes more sense to you?
    CONSERVATION - turning your thermostat back and being uncomfortable. Maybe saving 5-10%
    ENERGY EFFICIENCY - leaving your thermostat where everyone is comfortable. Saving 30-70%

    DO THE NUMBERS! Step on a HOMESCALE.
    What is comfort? Well, it AIN'T just TEMPERATURE!

    Energy Obese? An audit is the next step - go to BPI.org, or RESNET, and find an auditor near you.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    SW FL
    Posts
    6,440
    Hopefully, a unit will never be installed without the thorough layout and planning required by Permitting and State Building Code.

    Outside Air required for just 40 people alone may overwhelm a 4-ton unit.

    No Outside Air ... Pastor won't be to pleased with people sleeping all the time.
    ____________ ... Great way to NOT get a message received.

    COMFORT has MANY, MANY Aspects.
    Designer Dan
    It's Not Rocket Science, But It is SCIENCE with "Some Art". ___ ___ K EEP I T S IMPLE & S INCERE

    Define the Building Envelope and Perform a Detailed Load Calc: It's ALL About Windows and Make-up Air Requirements. Know Your Equipment Capabilities

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Madison, WI/Cape Coral, FL
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    6,646
    Sounds like 400 cfm of make-up air shen occupied, plus 40,000 btus of load for the occupants plus the building load.
    Include 100 pint per day whole building dehumidifier to keep the building dry during the unoccupied time. As the a/c will oversized because of the occupants load.
    Regards TB
    Bear Rules: Keep our home <50% RH summer, controls mites/mold and very comfortable.
    Provide 60-100 cfm of fresh air when occupied to purge indoor pollutants and keep window dry during cold weather. T-stat setup/setback +8 hrs. saves energy
    Use +Merv 10 air filter. -Don't forget the "Golden Rule"

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Rochester NY
    Posts
    4,763
    Quote Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
    4 tons, for a 1200 SQ FT church? might be cutting it close, probably under sized for the people load alone. Might need close to 5 tons for teh people load alone. How many members can it seat. you will have to provide fresh air, that adds a lot to the cooling load.
    Quote Originally Posted by superheatsleuth View Post
    .

    Yep, I'm thinking an "air and a spare".

    Primary to maintain comfort without the people load and a second for catch up.

    ..
    Quote Originally Posted by teddy bear View Post
    Sounds like 400 cfm of make-up air shen occupied, plus 40,000 btus of load for the occupants plus the building load.
    Quote Originally Posted by teddy bear View Post
    Include 100 pint per day whole building dehumidifier to keep the building dry during the unoccupied time. As the a/c will oversized because of the occupants load.
    Regards TB
    Minisplit and a 4 or 5 ton 2 stage unit?

    Big inverter Mini and 3 ton ahu (needs only one filter and smaller duct, quieter).
    Which makes more sense to you?
    CONSERVATION - turning your thermostat back and being uncomfortable. Maybe saving 5-10%
    ENERGY EFFICIENCY - leaving your thermostat where everyone is comfortable. Saving 30-70%

    DO THE NUMBERS! Step on a HOMESCALE.
    What is comfort? Well, it AIN'T just TEMPERATURE!

    Energy Obese? An audit is the next step - go to BPI.org, or RESNET, and find an auditor near you.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    kansas
    Posts
    9
    This is the Ask Our Pro's forum, and only Pro members that have been vetted by the AOPC may post advise here. Please apply to the AOPC today, thank you.

    You can find the rules for posting and qualifications here.

    Further infractions may result in loss of posting privileges.
    Last edited by beenthere; 10-18-2012 at 07:04 AM. Reason: Non Pro * Member

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