Clean Effects vs Lennox PureAir

[deliverer33]

breathe easy,

Thanks for your input. I think I will go with the HC10 initially and then upgrade to a Honeywell Merv 11 filter when this one gets dirty. I'm hoping this along with replacing all my ductboard with metal with improve my IAQ....

[genesis]

REMOVED DIY QUOTE!

2 Catalysts? Ozone and negative ions in the air stream with the catalyst and never have to replace the Lennox Catalyst.
Suggest you do some more homework on photocatalysis, TIO2 used with sol gel and ozone and intermediaries.

[vocoder]

2 Catalysts? Ozone and negative ions in the air stream with the catalyst and never have to replace the Lennox Catalyst.
Suggest you do some more homework on photocatalysis, TIO2 used with sol gel and ozone and intermediaries.

why should I? everything is monitored with a minirae, and my household air is as clean and fresh as it gets....there is really no ozone in the air (I won't allow that, not even in small amounts). what tiny amts are produced from the 3 watt unit are consumed in POC stream.

[teddy bear]

All of this and no fresh air? Anybody for some CO2 monitoring to determine how little or much fresh air is getting to these homes occupied areas? Fresh air purges indoor pollutants and renew oxygen. I have been in the IAQ business for 20 years and recently investigated the actual fresh air change in my own house. It was very poor in the summer even with a cracked window. Added fresh make-up air and was amazed by the improvement. 60-80 cfm of fresh air when occupied makes big difference in a moderately tight home. Measuring the CO2 levels tell you how much fresh air in making its way to the occupied areas of the home.
Attaching a early graph of CO2 levels with fresh air and without. Regards TB

[vocoder]

of course I have an air exchanger. it just gets less use now with my current setup. the indoor air has been much cleaner than the outside air most of the time. trying to integrate the AE with microcontroller and minirae is beyond my tallents ATM, so i do things somewhat manually.

[vocoder]

also have a whole home dehumidifier integrated.

[genesis]

Teddy Bear you got to get out of your world one of these days. Fresh air and humidity control are just a small part of the IAQ equation. And CO2 isn't the only measuring stick for IAQ. You ever hear of TVOCs, mycotoxins, endotoxins, mold spores, Radon, dust mites, outdoor ozone and pollen to name a few. Some areas of the country have to limit the fresh air into a building for many reasons. You must have that paragraph on auto redial. You got anything new and refreshing to post.

[genesis]

VOcoder that minirae just measures TVOCs are you doing any biologic sampling??

[vocoder]

cersorship at its best. We wouldn't want to deprive big company supporters of their consumable revenue stream, now would we?

[vocoder]

VOcoder that minirae just measures TVOCs are you doing any biologic sampling??

Like legionaires? Really, I had things plated a couple times, but suspicion is low. Also, CLO2 is dirt cheap. Its not a concern (for my system).

-funny how my big (cost savings) post was just deleted. Oh well. All I really care about is my own home environment. i thought rule: "2. Do-It-Yourself (DIY) - not here.

This site is for industry professionals and folks seeking HVAC/R advice and knowledge. Please do not ask for step by step instructions on purchasing, installing or repairing your own equipment. This is our job and our livelihood. We are generous, but not to a fault.

Questions of this type will not be answered and may be deleted at the discretion of the Moderators.
"

I wasn't asking questions. Maybe they should quickly make a new rule for me. The quote deleted and thread closed, but left up (without the original post)...what's the purpose? I guess leaving my post in there is the real threat...having the information freely seen by others is an economic threat to Lennox. Oh well, out of my control.

[genesis]

Like legionaires? Really, I had things plated a couple times, but suspicion is low. Also, CLO2 is dirt cheap. Its not a concern (for my system).

-funny how my big (cost savings) post was just deleted. Oh well. All I really care about is my own home environment.

Stuff like that needs to be in the pro section so it is restricted to the public in case some one burns their house down or something.

[vocoder]

Stuff like that needs to be in the pro section so it is restricted to the public in case some one burns their house down or something.

Gotcha, tnx =)

[teddy bear]

Teddy Bear you got to get out of your world one of these days. Fresh air and humidity control are just a small part of the IAQ equation. And CO2 isn't the only measuring stick for IAQ. You ever hear of TVOCs, mycotoxins, endotoxins, mold spores, Radon, dust mites, outdoor ozone and pollen to name a few. Some areas of the country have to limit the fresh air into a building for many reasons. You must have that paragraph on auto redial. You got anything new and refreshing to post.

That is funny. With fresh air and humidity control being just a small part of the IAQ equation but yet missing in most systems. Contractors try to sell exotic filtering much more than fresh air and humidity control. Green grass climates with adequate fresh air (an air change in 4 hours) would make a home as damp as outside during low/no a/c load. Therefore keep fresh out of the home, rignt. Fresh air purges indoor pollutants and renews oxygen. Outside air is the only source of oxygen. In side air always outside air. The question is, how long has the air been in the home. The longer the air has been in the space, the more internally generated pollutants have been added and the less oxygen is avialable. Like one of the posters in this thread said,"I have an HRV but I don't run it much" Few have a ventilation system. EPA, American Lung ASS, ASHRAE etc suggest fresh air, humidity control, a good simple air filter as basic. After that had every imaginable device know to man on your system, be my guest. I hope you include these basics in your recommendations. I do not here it from most. A/c contractors avoid fresh because they can not provide <50% RH with fresh air during wet cool weather. Regards TB

[R J Cedar]

It looks like it to me.

You could also go with my all-time favorite which is a filter box that holds a 4 inch commercial filter (3 1/2 inches deep). Low pressure drop. Filters at about 30% of the price.

In this Clean Effects vs Lennox PureAir thread, a lot of information has come out about simpler solutions like Lennox HC 16 AND HC 10; a simple HONEYWELL case; or filter box that holds a 4 inch commercial filter.

In Dec 07, Consumer Reports gave the Lennox HC 16 a good review - just go to a media simple media filter.

I think I will go that route. Any idea between Lennox and Honeywell, any idea which of these companies makes the best case?

Is it still the case that " You could also go with my all-time favorite which is a filter box that holds a 4 inch commercial filter (3 1/2 inches deep). Low pressure drop. Filters at about 30% of the price. "

Are the 5" filters that go into the Lennox HC10 having less resistance than those 4" commercials?

Thank you,
RJ

[breathe easy]

RJ
The Honeywell and Lennox filters are slightly thicker and therefore would have a slightly lower resistance. But in a residential system this small difference would have very little effect on the operation of the equipment. Certainly, not enough to justify the higher price for the filters.

[R J Cedar]

RJ
The Honeywell and Lennox filters are slightly thicker and therefore would have a slightly lower resistance. But in a residential system this small difference would have very little effect on the operation of the equipment. Certainly, not enough to justify the higher price for the filters.

Considering our conversation, I have a dust situation in the basement that might affect the filter choice.

I have a woodworking shop in the basement. I can seal it off from the heated area of the basement which is one half, the other half is the wood shop. There will be a separate electric, space heater in the woodshop.

While the woodshop has a cyclone dust collection system to 1 micron, there is some free dust in the woodshop air. I have been advised that by putting in a heat out duct to the AHU room, and nothing to the woodshop, this would keep a positive pressure in the heated basement area, so the wood dust would not migrate to there.

But we do have to go through the woodshop to get to the outside of the basement from the heated basement area. So the woodshop door does open and close. And if not using the shop, it would be nice to leave the door open after the dust has settled and is not in the woodshop air. So this is a kind of perfilter…..any dust left now is minimal, and that is what could get to the AHU coil.

So the concern is the AHU coil, which does I understand not do well with wood dust. Is the problem corrosion when wood dust meets a wet coil used in cooling? Or just dust on the coil?

SOLUTION?

There is no duct to the woodshop. The only way for dust to get to the coil is through the return air ducts, and then the filter, so:
- seal the return air ducts
- put the basement return far away from the woodshop in a hallway on the opposite side of the woodshop and out of the ahu room/
- get the right filter.

For a filter then,
What microns should be filtered out to protect a heat pump? MERV 10 ok? Or higher?

From your earlier posts, I understand I should definitely go to a thicker filter, for high lower static pressure than a 1", and also I think more dust holding capacity?

OPTIONS

Given the context above, is there any difference between these 2 options: (stay away from the electronic filters, right?)

1. your all-time favorite - a filter box that holds a 4 inch commercial filter (3 1/2 inches deep). Low pressure drop. Filters at about 30% of the price.

2 Lennox HC 10, that accepts Lennox or Honeywell Filters, in the thicker (5") size.

What microns should I be taking out for wood dust?

Is there a website that gives statistics for pressure drop and filtration effectiveness for the 4" commercial filters? Then I can compare 4" commercial filters with the stats on the Lennox/Honeywell Filters.

Thanks,
RJ

[JBM1000]

You make your decision after just 60 days in use!Attachment 216452

[pmeunier]

R J Cedar, your situation is a textbook case for using a HEPA filter. Connect the intake of the HEPA filter to the woodshop area, and the exhaust in the heated area. Have a smallish passive vent between the two that will complete the air path (so the air speed through it >500 fpm but not high enough to whistle much). Because the woodshop will be under continuous, strong negative pressure, only a little will escape when you'll open the door, and whatever does will likely be captured back after the door is closed. If you do this then you don't have to worry about anything regarding your regular HVAC unit, if it doesn't have any duct connecting to the woodshop area.

[R J Cedar]

You make your decision after just 60 days in use!Attachment 216452

Thanks. Excellent review of electronic air cleaners.

[R J Cedar]

Frankly, I would go with the Honeywell media filter base. You can buy replacement filters in a MERV 11 which is probably all you need. These filters are easy to find, relatively inexpensive, have low pressure drop and should last about 6 months. No need for a pre-filter. They should capture somewhere around 95% of airborne allergens.

If allergens are a problem, you might also check my post on the "In search of better air" thread.

We are testing the HC16 now. The initial tests are right on the money. Very efficient and 0.31wg pressure drop. However, to achieve this they probably had to charge the heck out of the fibers which will neutralize in about a month. (meaning pressure drop will go up and efficiency will decrease dramatically) Efficiency has dropped from 85% at 0.3 microns to 79% in the first week. We have had to temporarily stop the test. Should start up again later this week. If it turns out OK, I will let you know. If you go with the Honeywell, you can always switch to the HC16 since the filters are the same size.

I am considering going to a non-electronic solution based a consumer reports article recommendation for the LENNOX HC16 (and by default HC10). Specifically: Honeywell F100, MERV 11 with a sp drop of .23. I think this is the one you are speaking of above.

Can you help me not with a particulate efficiency question, but with a question on resistance efficiency?

The static pressure drop on many electronic units ranges from .18 to .27. In the same range as some of these 4 or 5" thick non-electronic media filters.

How can I think of pressure drop when:
- eg my AHU/DUCT system measures .5 SP no filter in? ( I chose .5 as I read this is a max objective for sp on a system)
- filter sp rating is .25
- filter note says filter at .5
- the AHU operates up to .8 sp

So when filter is new, sp is starts at .5 + .25 = .75.
This looks to me like I only have .05 of static to raise before I have to replace the filter!!

Is it correct to think of this that way? Margin for loading the filter with particulates is way too low?
What am I missing?
Thanks