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  1. #1
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    free market is just great

    Free market is just great. Let's look at Hurricane Sandy. The free market with little regulation lets us built right up to the beach of the ocean, even so only retards don't know that it's flood prone and at risk from storms. We don't want much federal government, the States should clean up their own mess and pay for the cleanup themselves. Let's get rid of FEMA and other agencies, let's send them home. Let's not have regulation that would prevent fuel shortages as we have now on the east coast. The free market will regulate all of that way better.

  2. #2
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    I'm no economist but what does the free market have to do with Hurricane Sandy?
    Gas stations and grocery stores that have no power can't participate in the free market. People that have no homes or cars due to the destruction have little need for gasoline. Of course others that came out unscathed will need it but a large % don't. So demand is down as well as supply. People in high rises.are without electricity so why would they need refrigerated groceries.
    Where the free market can't fulfill, charities and disaster response agencies fill the gap.
    Free market is pretty much sidelined for now.

  3. #3
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    The free unregulated market makes it possible that there is that much destruction. Regulations would make it possible to have a more reliable energy supply when disaster hits.

  4. #4
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    For a smart guy you have a twisted way of defining free market. You, apparently, believe that some "thing" out there, maybe called the government, can protect us from everything.

    A free market allows you to work in what you want to work in, where you want to work and when you want to work. A government controlled market tells you what to do, where to do it and when to do it typically for very little money, incentive and for long hours.

    Move to most any country where the government controls then come back. You'll be glad you live here. Not saying you should not complain about what needs complaining but should people living inland also not live there because their are earthquakes everyonce in a while. Can't live near the ocean front nor can we live inland. That doesn't leave anyplace to live seems to me.
    "The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers it can bribe the public with the public's own money.
    - Alexis de Toqueville, 1835

  5. #5
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    Tos... please do not take this personally...

    I see you are living in a country with a free market system... yet if I remember correctly (pleas correct me if I am wrong); you are not native born. My question:
    If the free market system is soooo horrible... why are you here rather than in the country (probably with an over-bearing government) you were born in?

    The beauty of Freedom is NOT measured in efficiency, rather in the lack of over-bearing govt destroying the quality of life one would have if they were free. Now that quality of life has NOTHING to do with efficiency or costs or profits or possessions... rather that quality of life is based on being able to make one's OWN decisions without someone forcing you (by law) to do things you do not want to do... or to spend your money in ways you do not choose to. That is why it is called freedom.

    The other side of freedom is: When one is free to choose, they are also responsible for their choices. Plain and simple... Example:
    *If I build a beach-house... I had better be able to afford insurance for what WILL happen sooner or later.
    *In the case of prices: What is better: Govt regulated prices which are either a rip-off so some crony gets a monopoly... or maybe artificially low prices that guarantee shortages and low quality products? Or perhaps floating prices that sometimes are high, yet always come back down when the law of supply and demand kicks in?

    Shortages usually are the result of govt intervention... NOT the market-place.

    Freedom is something one must love enough to cherish... otherwise one will take it for granted and loose it.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

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  6. #6
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    Sep 2007
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    If Government regulation is so great and needed then why did they need to suspend so much regulation and red tape to expedite the rescue/clean up/ relief efforts? Answer: Even the Feds know their regulations are intentionally meant to be prohibitive and stand in the way of progress.
    If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what will never be. (Thomas Jefferson 1816)

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by tostaos View Post
    Free market is just great. Let's look at Hurricane Sandy. The free market with little regulation lets us built right up to the beach of the ocean, even so only retards don't know that it's flood prone and at risk from storms. We don't want much federal government, the States should clean up their own mess and pay for the cleanup themselves. Let's get rid of FEMA and other agencies, let's send them home. Let's not have regulation that would prevent fuel shortages as we have now on the east coast. The free market will regulate all of that way better.

    Oh my. Where to begin? I'll try:

    The free market with little regulation lets us built right up to the beach of the ocean,


    That has nothing to do with a free market. That is personal property rights.

    only retards don't know that it's flood prone and at risk from storms.

    I know, and people still build houses in flood plains anyway, freedom of choice does not always mean a wise decision.

    We don't want much federal government, the States should clean up their own mess and pay for the cleanup themselves

    Wrong, that is what FEMA and the national guard is for.

    Let's not have regulation that would prevent fuel shortages as we have now on the east coast.

    Regulation would HAVE NEVER been able to prevent the fuel shortages we have here in this situation, that is one of the most ignorant points I have heard posted in ARP in several months.

    And if you do not like it here, feel free to return to whatever bannana republic from which you came.
    "You boys are really making this thing harder than it has to be". Me

    "Who ARE you people? And WHAT are you doing in my SWAMP!?" Shrek

    Service calls submitted after 3PM will be posted the next business day.

    I give free estimates [Wild Ass Guesses] over the phone.

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  8. #8
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    Anderson, South Carolina, United States
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    Like others have said, if you don't like a free market then move to another country don't try to ruin mine!

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeltaT View Post
    You, apparently, believe that some "thing" out there, maybe called the government, can protect us from everything.
    Not at all. I am just not for a free for all. Some regulation just can save a lot in the long run.
    Quote Originally Posted by DeltaT View Post
    A free market allows you to work in what you want to work in, where you want to work and when you want to work. A government controlled market tells you what to do, where to do it and when to do it typically for very little money, incentive and for long hours.
    Where have you been, who is promoting government controlled markets today?
    Quote Originally Posted by DeltaT View Post
    Move to most any country where the government controls then come back. You'll be glad you live here. Not saying you should not complain about what needs complaining but should people living inland also not live there because their are earthquakes everyonce in a while. Can't live near the ocean front nor can we live inland. That doesn't leave anyplace to live seems to me.
    I did live in other places, you on the other hand probably not. Do you really believe we could not left a buffer zone of a half a mile for the community to enjoy on all the beaches? ...and you are right, it's completely stupid to build cities on top of known active earthquake faults.
    The good news is, Darwinism is well and alive. In the long run the nature will clean up that DNA pool of idiots.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    If the free market system is soooo horrible... why are you here rather than in the country (probably with an over-bearing government) you were born in?
    Ever heard anything about the thing called family? It's a hell lot more important to me than a friggen country... and no, government is a lot more over-bearing here in the States. I live in a County that is in total control of Republicans and living is way more restricted as were I come from. Around the world everybody has this impression of the total individual freedom in the States. I have news for you, that must have changed when the West was no more the wild west.
    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    The other side of freedom is: When one is free to choose, they are also responsible for their choices. Plain and simple... Example:
    *If I build a beach-house... I had better be able to afford insurance for what WILL happen sooner or later.
    That is not what happens. Most always say that they want to rebuilt. Many don't have the insurance necessary. Every time we have a big storm the federal government has to come in and it costs a lot of money.
    Government regulations should regulate the big things. The things that are important in the big picture. Not in the bedroom, my house, my body...
    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    *In the case of prices: What is better: Govt regulated prices which are either a rip-off so some crony gets a monopoly... or maybe artificially low prices that guarantee shortages and low quality products? Or perhaps floating prices that sometimes are high, yet always come back down when the law of supply and demand kicks in?

    Shortages usually are the result of govt intervention... NOT the market-place.
    I think you don't understand what I mean. Energy is supplied by monopolies or very small markets. With dominance in the market comes also the responsibility to supply the market and regulations can help to accomplish that as there are no incentives for the free market to do it on their own as it only costs them money. Like a hardened electric supply. Fuel supply that is not affected by floods...

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tool-Slinger View Post
    The free market with little regulation lets us built right up to the beach of the ocean,

    That has nothing to do with a free market. That is personal property rights.
    Yes it does. Property rights is an integrated part of the free market. In other places it's more regulated what you can do with the property. Not by much, as there are many regulation on local levels what can be built on a piece of land.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tool-Slinger View Post
    only retards don't know that it's flood prone and at risk from storms.

    I know, and people still build houses in flood plains anyway, freedom of choice does not always mean a wise decision.
    That's all you have? or all the smarties who live right on the ocean and want to ride out the storm and then need to be rescued. I don't know any other country that does not enforce mandatory evacuation...and goes and rescues them after they get in trouble.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tool-Slinger View Post
    We don't want much federal government, the States should clean up their own mess and pay for the cleanup themselves

    Wrong, that is what FEMA and the national guard is for.
    Let's change that.
    I thought all you Republicans are for more power to the States. I am for it. Pay for the messes you create yourselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tool-Slinger View Post
    Let's not have regulation that would prevent fuel shortages as we have now on the east coast.

    Regulation would HAVE NEVER been able to prevent the fuel shortages we have here in this situation, that is one of the most ignorant points I have heard posted in ARP in several months.
    Regulations could definitely improve supply reliability. Like minimal storage requirements, ability to pump without working electric grid, above flood level.
    There are already regulations. My point to all of you is, that regulations can be good.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tool-Slinger View Post
    And if you do not like it here, feel free to return to whatever bannana republic from which you came.
    1. learn to spell banana
    2. it's the typical respond I get when somebody has no good arguments

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtrammel View Post
    Like others have said, if you don't like a free market then move to another country don't try to ruin mine!
    I like free regulated market as the quality of live overall is better.
    My son, born in Kansas did go back to my home country to study for a semester. He already talks to go back for graduate school and who knows, he will like it better over there. There are quite many Americans with means who live abroad. Why do you think that is?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by tostaos View Post
    Yes it does. Property rights is an integrated part of the free market. In other places it's more regulated what you can do with the property. Not by much, as there are many regulation on local levels what can be built on a piece of land.


    That's all you have? or all the smarties who live right on the ocean and want to ride out the storm and then need to be rescued. I don't know any other country that does not enforce mandatory evacuation...and goes and rescues them after they get in trouble.


    Let's change that.
    I thought all you Republicans are for more power to the States. I am for it. Pay for the messes you create yourselves.

    Regulations could definitely improve supply reliability. Like minimal storage requirements, ability to pump without working electric grid, above flood level.
    There are already regulations. My point to all of you is, that regulations can be good.


    1. learn to spell banana
    2. it's the typical respond I get when somebody has no good arguments
    More fun than a barrell of monkeys.

    Yes it does. Property rights is an integrated part of the free market. In other places it's more regulated what you can do with the property. Not by much, as there are many regulation on local levels what can be built on a piece of land.

    So you have no point, an asinine rebuttal, but no real point.

    That's all you have? or all the smarties who live right on the ocean and want to ride out the storm and then need to be rescued. I don't know any other country that does not enforce mandatory evacuation...and goes and rescues them after they get in trouble.

    I figure people need to solve their own problems, I have problems of my own, But we have idiots and helpless people here and we need to save them when disaster strikes. Whatever I may think of people on a personal level kinda goes 'out the window' when they are stuck with disaster. If you are hungry and shelter-less, we should help them. That is just a Christian attitude of charity.

    I thought all you Republicans are for more power to the States. I am for it. Pay for the messes you create yourselves.

    Dude, get off your high-horse. This was a damm hurricane of rare proportion that is rare to ever happen. People are starving, suffering, and you are on here taking advantage of the misery to whine about your political gripes with this nation that have nothing to do with this disaster. Hate of free markets does NOT deter hurricanes.

    Regulations could definitely improve supply reliability. Like minimal storage requirements, ability to pump without working electric grid, above flood level.
    There are already regulations. My point to all of you is, that regulations can be good.


    Problem. The gas was there in many cases, could not be pumped because of lack of electricity. Electricity hampered by [democrat supporting/socialist]union refusal to admit non-union help. You could regulate massive storage of gas, but the cost would ultimately mean the gas stations would be few and far between in the long run because the cost of opening/doing business is too much or they would not even be there at all.

    1. learn to spell banana

    I may not can spell bannana, but you are dumber than a box of rocks.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0A834CwzNHI
    "You boys are really making this thing harder than it has to be". Me

    "Who ARE you people? And WHAT are you doing in my SWAMP!?" Shrek

    Service calls submitted after 3PM will be posted the next business day.

    I give free estimates [Wild Ass Guesses] over the phone.

    "I am sorry for interrupting, please continue with your quarreling" Some chick on TV

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