OF COURSE I'M JOKING! I can't believe it's been six months and that businees jargon is still in my head.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by cdo
[B]You "York" guys just don't see the big picture...
JCI is a world class organization. By intergrating technologies and utilizing acquistion synergies,they will develope strategic relationships in a diversifed, vertical market by cross selling and offering value added, bundled solutions. Going forward, there will be a period rightsizing, followed by smartsizing. This will optimize and capture market share and increase blended gross margins adding to the shareholders value proposition.
Hey CDO please tell me your joking or else your just
AN OTHER TALKING HEAD FULL OF HOT AIR...YOUR $20 dollar words mean...nothing oh but I forgot empty words are what drive the bussiness not the quality of a job well done. Maybe the talking heads will have a vivid realization when all the quality walks out the door...
[Edited by shotindadark on 11-23-2006 at 04:27 PM]
OF COURSE I'M JOKING! I can't believe it's been six months and that businees jargon is still in my head.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by J3hall
[B]LOL that was pretty funny lolOriginally posted by cdo
OF COURSE I'M JOKING! I can't believe it's been six months and that businees jargon is still in my head.
[Edited by shotindadark on 11-24-2006 at 12:34 PM]
Hello everyone,
The truth of the matter is this, Yes, some technicians have left the company to which I hope they on are to bigger and better positions. I for one, want to stay around just to watch the cookie crumble, call me a gluntent for punishment but I like to put things back together again.
Now the plain truth...Since York was taken over and I mean taken over, we have not been able to bill, schedule, process, or just plain do buisness the way it's suppose to be done. There are so many misgivings they are trying to keep in dark it just scares the B-Jesus out of me, Why, because I know at the end of the day when this whole nighmare comes to light for the stock holders they and I mean JCI, will blame the York Legacy Employees for their disaster.
Historiclly speaking, JCI has always failed in the service buisness, their track record speaks for itself. So now there are more for the rollor coaster ride they love to put their employees through. So with that being said, anyone who may want to respond please be factual in your statements, because my many decades with the best, has put in a position to know the truth and nothing but the truth...
Oh yes, one other note...They just told countless employees they would no longer have jobs because some bean counter thinks it's best to move a certain portion of the buisness to CHEESE LAND and that's not Disney...
Good evening
I have heard that JCI service bussiness always lacked...( as far as the mechanical service is concerned)Is that accurate???Originally posted by drhouse1
Hello everyone,
The truth of the matter is this, Yes, some technicians have left the company to which I hope they on are to bigger and better positions. I for one, want to stay around just to watch the cookie crumble, call me a gluntent for punishment but I like to put things back together again.
Now the plain truth...Since York was taken over and I mean taken over, we have not been able to bill, schedule, process, or just plain do buisness the way it's suppose to be done. There are so many misgivings they are trying to keep in dark it just scares the B-Jesus out of me, Why, because I know at the end of the day when this whole nighmare comes to light for the stock holders they and I mean JCI, will blame the York Legacy Employees for their disaster.
Historiclly speaking, JCI has always failed in the service buisness, their track record speaks for itself. So now there are more for the rollor coaster ride they love to put their employees through. So with that being said, anyone who may want to respond please be factual in your statements, because my many decades with the best, has put in a position to know the truth and nothing but the truth...
Oh yes, one other note...They just told countless employees they would no longer have jobs because some bean counter thinks it's best to move a certain portion of the buisness to CHEESE LAND and that's not Disney...
Good evening
They never have had a strong service presence in our area. Three to five hvac techs most of the time. Control techs is another story, lots of them around.
Their mechanical buisness has not grown at the rate to which the big three have experienced, that has been very evident. Building a service department takes years, killing one, only takes months. To which many have gone by...JCI service was in the light commercial market, not heavy commercial and industrial markets. It takes a certain breed of tecnicians, support staff, managers, and VP's to be successful those markets, none of which they originally had until the purchase of YORK...Now, most of them are gone...
The market share they believe to own, is slipping away at a rate faster then they could have imagined. They have sliced away at the infrastructure by means of letting poeple just walk out the door, to laying off and dismantling the ways, only to suffer the means. Maybe soon the bleeding will stop...Good day Gents
I give it 5 years before they even show the slightest hint of a recovery. Trust me on this one, I worked for Fortune 500 company that was three years into the buyout/takeover and the upper management was still in shambles. Finding qualified techs to come over to an unsure destiny was quite the challange. Keeping techs that were watching it deteriorate was also a challange.
If you could find the techs then you couldn't get trucks. If you had the trucks you couldn't find techs. The techs were getting fed up with safety meetings, new forms, etc. All of this is done for the CYA of the upper management, not for the techs. If you got hurt it was, well we told you not to do that and place the blame on the techs.
Its all about the stockholders and profitability. Losing customers was just another day at the office. The my way or the highway is what is going to drive them into the ground. Trying to get all the offices to function as one with identical services, billing, POs, paperwork, etc, will piss the customers off and they will leave. Its already happening. JMHO
Originally posted by drhouse1
Their mechanical buisness has not grown at the rate to which the big three have experienced, that has been very evident. Building a service department takes years, killing one, only takes months. To which many have gone by...JCI service was in the light commercial market, not heavy commercial and industrial markets. It takes a certain breed of tecnicians, support staff, managers, and VP's to be successful those markets, none of which they originally had until the purchase of YORK...Now, most of them are gone...
The market share they believe to own, is slipping away at a rate faster then they could have imagined. They have sliced away at the infrastructure by means of letting poeple just walk out the door, to laying off and dismantling the ways, only to suffer the means. Maybe soon the bleeding will stop...Good day Gents
Originally posted by absrbrtek
I give it 5 years before they even show the slightest hint of a recovery. Trust me on this one, I worked for Fortune 500 company that was three years into the buyout/takeover and the upper management was still in shambles. Finding qualified techs to come over to an unsure destiny was quite the challange. Keeping techs that were watching it deteriorate was also a challange.
If you could find the techs then you couldn't get trucks. If you had the trucks you couldn't find techs. The techs were getting fed up with safety meetings, new forms, etc. All of this is done for the CYA of the upper management, not for the techs. If you got hurt it was, well we told you not to do that and place the blame on the techs.
Its all about the stockholders and profitability. Losing customers was just another day at the office. The my way or the highway is what is going to drive them into the ground. Trying to get all the offices to function as one with identical services, billing, POs, paperwork, etc, will piss the customers off and they will leave. Its already happening. JMHO
Originally posted by drhouse1
Their mechanical buisness has not grown at the rate to which the big three have experienced, that has been very evident. Building a service department takes years, killing one, only takes months. To which many have gone by...JCI service was in the light commercial market, not heavy commercial and industrial markets. It takes a certain breed of tecnicians, support staff, managers, and VP's to be successful those markets, none of which they originally had until the purchase of YORK...Now, most of them are gone...
The market share they believe to own, is slipping away at a rate faster then they could have imagined. They have sliced away at the infrastructure by means of letting poeple just walk out the door, to laying off and dismantling the ways, only to suffer the means. Maybe soon the bleeding will stop...Good day Gents
Thanks for the input gentlemen and ladies (just don't want to miss anyone). So I can gather from what I heard is that JCI was never really in the Mechanical Bussiness. They have a strong automation bussiness. And the Mechanical bussiness they have aquired JCI is dismantling brick by brick..
Very interesting feedback from many who are involved. Although I am not directly involved I have been in the trade 34 years and know many JCI employees and have dealt with York in regards to buying and servicing their product and dealing with Tech Support, etc.
I have been a Journeyman Tech, an owner, a manager, a regional manager, run service dpartments, have taken university courses on business managment and been involved in forecasting, budgeting, expansions, you name it.
An interesting comment from Shotindadark about bean counters involvement in the blunder...I mean integration of York and JCI. So many times over the years I have watched a company that for some reason can't penetrate a market they feel they belong in. In JCI's case this is the chiller service market. Honeywell went thru the same thing. The management team for some reason believes they belong in the market big time.
The old tried and tested manner of slowly and surely hiring the right people, making inroads, expanding those inroads, providing good quality service so the customers provide the best advertising, and eventually ending up as a dominant player are regarded as too slow. (like a sports team that hires the right management, drafts the right players, refuses to deal away those draft picks and slowly and patiently waits for those players to develop and then become dominant and create a dynasty)
The quickest route, your trusted accountant will tell you, is target the right company and make them an offer they can't refuse and presto! You will be playing with the big dogs in no time! ( Like the Yankees, you don't have to build slowly. If you have the money you just buy what you need and overnight you are the dynasty with all the championship rings.)
The problem is, this is like a company that owns some general stores where they sell a little of everything, including some furniture. They somehow come to believe that because they have a little experience dealing with furniture and furniture customers they therefore must have the capability to understand and run a furniture empire. So the financing is somehow arranged, the offer is made, the furniture empire sells out, and the general store now tries to operate the furniture empire.
Of course, the general store believes that the road to success means that the furniture empire should be shown how to run a business the right way and as the new masters, the general store begins making things happen their way, not the way that led to the furniture empire's success in the first place.
Soon the relationship between the new masters and the furniture factory falls apart and the people who don't get fed up and leave, eventually lock horns and are fired. Moral plummets and the quality and reputation of the furniture suffers and furniture sales drop off and the public wonders why the brand name of furniture they have always trusted is going down the tubes.
Takeovers have evolved along those same lines for years. Many result in eventual failure of the furniture factory and often the general store as well. This occurs because the wrong people get to drive the boat. In the old days, the wily old veterans who had been in the business for years could tell you how to expand, how to manage the srvice dpartment, how to keep your customers and reputation and how to be succesful.
But in the new days, full speed ahead is the only way to go. If a business wishes to expand aggressively, it takes money, either their own, or more likely the banks or shareholders. Now we talking big meetings, big long term business projections, cash flow projections, etc. The business knows they need a staff of financial gurus for this type of activity and they hire a sharpshooter accountant who can make things happen at the big meetings with the moneymen.
Almost without fail the owners who are savy with their core business come to rely more and more on the CFO because he seems to be moving them forward. Meanwhile the CFO becomes more and more either the decision maker or the decision makers right hand so that eventually the important decisions are in fact made, or very heavily influenced, by an accountant.
An accountant is trained to analyze numbers and his entire mindset is contained within a small box full of numbers. He has a very hard time seeing anything but numbers and an almost impossible time looking outside the box. Unfortunately, nost of the situations involving human expertise, job security, devlopment of new products, dealing with customers, in other words all the warm and fuzzy feelings to do with business, and ultimately make or break the business, occur outside the numbers box.
When a business owner is smart enough to simply take his accountant's advice into consideration as part of an overall decision while relying on his own overall savy and instinct, he will usually succeed. But when the owners loose sight of the ball, and start letting the bean counters input add up to the majority of the decision, while the human and common sense side only makes up a small minority of the decision factor, failure usally occurs.
We have seen this happen in all fields in all types of business, even sports. What screws up a good pro sport franchise quicker than taking control away from the family who has had the sport in their blood for years and has always placed the product first and the bottom line second and give it to the corporation run by bean counters whose entire focus is the bottom line. The first thing that suffers is the players, the second are the fans, the third is the team mangement who now take the heat and are fired or quit. The product is now a shadow of what they once were and everyone wonders why.
Too many times, people riding in the back of the plane develop illusions about how they not only have the ability to fly, but they also have the right to make it happen. Suddenly, the plane is spiraling, no one seems to know how to bring it out of the spin, and the original pilot has been tossed out. The passengers ( public and former employees) have to ride it into the ground or bail out. At the end of the day, a little band of fools has ruined the trip for everyone and ruined the plane in the process.
Sorry for the long rant but it has always irritated me when business owners sound so proud to say they have X number of accountants on staff. To me that means the business has just increased their chances of failure by X fold.
Our society looks at business the same way we look at consumer products. Buy it, if it isn't what you want or it quits working, throw it in the garbage and buy another.
I have seen this happen, but could have never ever put this into words spoken this honestly.Originally posted by crew leader
Very interesting feedback from many who are involved. Although I am not directly involved I have been in the trade 34 years and know many JCI employees and have dealt with York in regards to buying and servicing their product and dealing with Tech Support, etc.
I have been a Journeyman Tech, an owner, a manager, a regional manager, run service dpartments, have taken university courses on business managment and been involved in forecasting, budgeting, expansions, you name it.
An interesting comment from Shotindadark about bean counters involvement in the blunder...I mean integration of York and JCI. So many times over the years I have watched a company that for some reason can't penetrate a market they feel they belong in. In JCI's case this is the chiller service market. Honeywell went thru the same thing. The management team for some reason believes they belong in the market big time.
The old tried and tested manner of slowly and surely hiring the right people, making inroads, expanding those inroads, providing good quality service so the customers provide the best advertising, and eventually ending up as a dominant player are regarded as too slow. (like a sports team that hires the right management, drafts the right players, refuses to deal away those draft picks and slowly and patiently waits for those players to develop and then become dominant and create a dynasty)
The quickest route, your trusted accountant will tell you, is target the right company and make them an offer they can't refuse and presto! You will be playing with the big dogs in no time! ( Like the Yankees, you don't have to build slowly. If you have the money you just buy what you need and overnight you are the dynasty with all the championship rings.)
The problem is, this is like a company that owns some general stores where they sell a little of everything, including some furniture. They somehow come to believe that because they have a little experience dealing with furniture and furniture customers they therefore must have the capability to understand and run a furniture empire. So the financing is somehow arranged, the offer is made, the furniture empire sells out, and the general store now tries to operate the furniture empire.
Of course, the general store believes that the road to success means that the furniture empire should be shown how to run a business the right way and as the new masters, the general store begins making things happen their way, not the way that led to the furniture empire's success in the first place.
Soon the relationship between the new masters and the furniture factory falls apart and the people who don't get fed up and leave, eventually lock horns and are fired. Moral plummets and the quality and reputation of the furniture suffers and furniture sales drop off and the public wonders why the brand name of furniture they have always trusted is going down the tubes.
Takeovers have evolved along those same lines for years. Many result in eventual failure of the furniture factory and often the general store as well. This occurs because the wrong people get to drive the boat. In the old days, the wily old veterans who had been in the business for years could tell you how to expand, how to manage the srvice dpartment, how to keep your customers and reputation and how to be succesful.
But in the new days, full speed ahead is the only way to go. If a business wishes to expand aggressively, it takes money, either their own, or more likely the banks or shareholders. Now we talking big meetings, big long term business projections, cash flow projections, etc. The business knows they need a staff of financial gurus for this type of activity and they hire a sharpshooter accountant who can make things happen at the big meetings with the moneymen.
Almost without fail the owners who are savy with their core business come to rely more and more on the CFO because he seems to be moving them forward. Meanwhile the CFO becomes more and more either the decision maker or the decision makers right hand so that eventually the important decisions are in fact made, or very heavily influenced, by an accountant.
An accountant is trained to analyze numbers and his entire mindset is contained within a small box full of numbers. He has a very hard time seeing anything but numbers and an almost impossible time looking outside the box. Unfortunately, nost of the situations involving human expertise, job security, devlopment of new products, dealing with customers, in other words all the warm and fuzzy feelings to do with business, and ultimately make or break the business, occur outside the numbers box.
When a business owner is smart enough to simply take his accountant's advice into consideration as part of an overall decision while relying on his own overall savy and instinct, he will usually succeed. But when the owners loose sight of the ball, and start letting the bean counters input add up to the majority of the decision, while the human and common sense side only makes up a small minority of the decision factor, failure usally occurs.
We have seen this happen in all fields in all types of business, even sports. What screws up a good pro sport franchise quicker than taking control away from the family who has had the sport in their blood for years and has always placed the product first and the bottom line second and give it to the corporation run by bean counters whose entire focus is the bottom line. The first thing that suffers is the players, the second are the fans, the third is the team mangement who now take the heat and are fired or quit. The product is now a shadow of what they once were and everyone wonders why.
Too many times, people riding in the back of the plane develop illusions about how they not only have the ability to fly, but they also have the right to make it happen. Suddenly, the plane is spiraling, no one seems to know how to bring it out of the spin, and the original pilot has been tossed out. The passengers ( public and former employees) have to ride it into the ground or bail out. At the end of the day, a little band of fools has ruined the trip for everyone and ruined the plane in the process.
Sorry for the long rant but it has always irritated me when business owners sound so proud to say they have X number of accountants on staff. To me that means the business has just increased their chances of failure by X fold.
Our society looks at business the same way we look at consumer products. Buy it, if it isn't what you want or it quits working, throw it in the garbage and buy another.
Great reply!
Very well spoken to all...For now, we that are remaining behind can only look forward to the next round of ridiculous requests that are put upon the employee's by the one's that can't look outside the box.
OH Yes! That's one of their all time famous phrases, (The Box)...The box puts so many constraints on buisness growth which clearly shows me and everyone else the reason why they have not been successful in the mechanical service buisness. I have one question for any upper management from with in, why would you want to buy something only to change the core structure of what made the company so desirable to begin with? 3.2 Billon $$$ is not pocket change...
One thought, I bought a set of golf clubs a short time back, but I didn't bring them home and re-design them, they worked already that's why I bought them...Amazing
Heres another one for the team, SGI (Service Growth Initiative) which should be (STOP GETTING INVOLVED)...Think about it???
The controls buisness on the other hand would always be successful to some point and no matter whom they are. Once the controls are through-out the building who in there right mind would remove them. Typically, they have a number of months or years to make it work and in some cases research and development is performed at the customers sight. As for the controls technicians, there just a group of men and woman trying to make a living just as we are. For some, their only problem is they drank the blue cool-aid, so be careful...
Good night all
Originally posted by crew leader
Very interesting feedback from many who are involved. Although I am not directly involved I have been in the trade 34 years and know many JCI employees and have dealt with York in regards to buying and servicing their product and dealing with Tech Support, etc.
I have been a Journeyman Tech, an owner, a manager, a regional manager, run service dpartments, have taken university courses on business managment and been involved in forecasting, budgeting, expansions, you name it.
An interesting comment from Shotindadark about bean counters involvement in the blunder...I mean integration of York and JCI. So many times over the years I have watched a company that for some reason can't penetrate a market they feel they belong in. In JCI's case this is the chiller service market. Honeywell went thru the same thing. The management team for some reason believes they belong in the market big time.
The old tried and tested manner of slowly and surely hiring the right people, making inroads, expanding those inroads, providing good quality service so the customers provide the best advertising, and eventually ending up as a dominant player are regarded as too slow. (like a sports team that hires the right management, drafts the right players, refuses to deal away those draft picks and slowly and patiently waits for those players to develop and then become dominant and create a dynasty)
The quickest route, your trusted accountant will tell you, is target the right company and make them an offer they can't refuse and presto! You will be playing with the big dogs in no time! ( Like the Yankees, you don't have to build slowly. If you have the money you just buy what you need and overnight you are the dynasty with all the championship rings.)
The problem is, this is like a company that owns some general stores where they sell a little of everything, including some furniture. They somehow come to believe that because they have a little experience dealing with furniture and furniture customers they therefore must have the capability to understand and run a furniture empire. So the financing is somehow arranged, the offer is made, the furniture empire sells out, and the general store now tries to operate the furniture empire.
Of course, the general store believes that the road to success means that the furniture empire should be shown how to run a business the right way and as the new masters, the general store begins making things happen their way, not the way that led to the furniture empire's success in the first place.
Soon the relationship between the new masters and the furniture factory falls apart and the people who don't get fed up and leave, eventually lock horns and are fired. Moral plummets and the quality and reputation of the furniture suffers and furniture sales drop off and the public wonders why the brand name of furniture they have always trusted is going down the tubes.
Takeovers have evolved along those same lines for years. Many result in eventual failure of the furniture factory and often the general store as well. This occurs because the wrong people get to drive the boat. In the old days, the wily old veterans who had been in the business for years could tell you how to expand, how to manage the srvice dpartment, how to keep your customers and reputation and how to be succesful.
But in the new days, full speed ahead is the only way to go. If a business wishes to expand aggressively, it takes money, either their own, or more likely the banks or shareholders. Now we talking big meetings, big long term business projections, cash flow projections, etc. The business knows they need a staff of financial gurus for this type of activity and they hire a sharpshooter accountant who can make things happen at the big meetings with the moneymen.
Almost without fail the owners who are savy with their core business come to rely more and more on the CFO because he seems to be moving them forward. Meanwhile the CFO becomes more and more either the decision maker or the decision makers right hand so that eventually the important decisions are in fact made, or very heavily influenced, by an accountant.
An accountant is trained to analyze numbers and his entire mindset is contained within a small box full of numbers. He has a very hard time seeing anything but numbers and an almost impossible time looking outside the box. Unfortunately, nost of the situations involving human expertise, job security, devlopment of new products, dealing with customers, in other words all the warm and fuzzy feelings to do with business, and ultimately make or break the business, occur outside the numbers box.
When a business owner is smart enough to simply take his accountant's advice into consideration as part of an overall decision while relying on his own overall savy and instinct, he will usually succeed. But when the owners loose sight of the ball, and start letting the bean counters input add up to the majority of the decision, while the human and common sense side only makes up a small minority of the decision factor, failure usally occurs.
We have seen this happen in all fields in all types of business, even sports. What screws up a good pro sport franchise quicker than taking control away from the family who has had the sport in their blood for years and has always placed the product first and the bottom line second and give it to the corporation run by bean counters whose entire focus is the bottom line. The first thing that suffers is the players, the second are the fans, the third is the team mangement who now take the heat and are fired or quit. The product is now a shadow of what they once were and everyone wonders why.
Too many times, people riding in the back of the plane develop illusions about how they not only have the ability to fly, but they also have the right to make it happen. Suddenly, the plane is spiraling, no one seems to know how to bring it out of the spin, and the original pilot has been tossed out. The passengers ( public and former employees) have to ride it into the ground or bail out. At the end of the day, a little band of fools has ruined the trip for everyone and ruined the plane in the process.
Sorry for the long rant but it has always irritated me when business owners sound so proud to say they have X number of accountants on staff. To me that means the business has just increased their chances of failure by X fold.
Our society looks at business the same way we look at consumer products. Buy it, if it isn't what you want or it quits working, throw it in the garbage and buy another.
Couldn't say it better...CREW LEADER you hit the nail on the JCI Head...I refuse to listen to the music that the "Little band of Fools" as you call them is playing. Also as Drhouse 1 said DON'T DRINK THE BLUE KOOLAID
Originally posted by cdo
Thanks Streetsmarts. Do I Know you?
Hi there cdo! No, you don't know me, it's just that news travels fast. However, I wish there was more people like you around right now. The current monopoly situation has obviously turned the big 3 (and more) into tyrannical dictatorships. Living proof that monopolies don't work. Even customers hate them. We need to go in direct competition with them immediately or suffer the ugly consequences. They are simply out of control and have to be brought down to their knees, like we do with all dictators. It's just not a pleasure coming to work anymore.
On the other hand, the good news is that we have another very powerful option at our disposal. Considering the fact that experienced HVACR and Chiller Techs are becoming dinosaurs and that it takes at least 10 years to make one of us, the supply demand equation is in our favor. Collectively, we have more power than the atomic bomb and can shut down entire cities if we so desire. The way that we harness are power is by breaking down the faction that exists within our service departments among fellow techs. In other words, we techs all have to unite to fight off the demons that our trying to control us. If we stand together and say NO, then NO is what it will be. The problem is that we techs are all divided and there is no solidarity. Management recognizes this and takes advantage of our weakness. Management promotes and creates factions, to purposely weaken us as a group, so that they can intimidate us and conquer their sinister objectives. Every service department is crafted the same way. This is how the faction breaks down. You have the privileged 20% of techs receiving so many extra perks that they are secretly loyal to management. Then you have the other 20% (like me) who has their fists up and are ready to battle. And finally, the remaining 60%, who either ate the cheese or is so scared to stand up that they are shaking in their boots. There you have it gentlemen, we can only blame ourselves for allowing are problems to prevail. Shame on us for brilliantly fixing everyone elses problems but not our own. You see...we really can fix things if we want to!
A quick word to those techs out there that we all know that say " quit whining and complaining, there is nothing you can do, just shut up and do your job, otherwise you will be replaced ". That type of an attitude can sink ships. Good technicians are not sitting at home waiting for the phone to ring. There is not only a diminishing supply of experienced techs worldwide but there is a shortage of good apprentices. The large volume of new HVAC equipment manufactured versus the long technician turnout time ratio adds to the current shortage problem.
All things said and simply put, we do not have to put up with any of the BS we are all currently subjected to.
Lets all join hands and show them who is boss! You can quickstart this whole process by having regular technician only meetings. Management just hates that, the thought that the technicians are re-grouping.
Best of luck to all of you and thanks for all your replies.
Streetsmarts - It's refreshing to read your last post, you've put into words the opportunities and downfalls of our trade in general, just like myself and others have realized.
You may want to consider starting another post concerning how do we rally or poll our strentghs together to creat a better work enviroment - better pay, conditions, etc. And minimize the back stabbing, inter fighting/conflict, etc. that goes on in every service shop.
In this area, a good service man makes 20% less than an average pipefitter, then you have to negotiate extra pay and perks on your own if your decent. It's a shame.
You put yourself in a class of 20% of service mechanics, but after reading some of your posts, your one of the one percenters - something special.
I know for a fact that one of the big 3 companies was recently trying to implement rules and changes that were upsetting the tech's. The office noticed an increase in the burden time as productivity dropped. All the tech's were together and had meetings and all went into the office and said to management to stop what they were doing or they will all leave. This scared management and they stopped right away. The company is a pleasure to work for with solidarity of the tech's.
Just as you said Streetsmarts if we all got together the company's would back down. I bet JCI's burden/non productive time is skyrocketing......
Originally posted by streetsmarts
Originally posted by cdo
Thanks Streetsmarts. Do I Know you?
Hi there cdo! No, you don't know me, it's just that news travels fast. However, I wish there was more people like you around right now. The current monopoly situation has obviously turned the big 3 (and more) into tyrannical dictatorships. Living proof that monopolies don't work. Even customers hate them. We need to go in direct competition with them immediately or suffer the ugly consequences. They are simply out of control and have to be brought down to their knees, like we do with all dictators. It's just not a pleasure coming to work anymore.
On the other hand, the good news is that we have another very powerful option at our disposal. Considering the fact that experienced HVACR and Chiller Techs are becoming dinosaurs and that it takes at least 10 years to make one of us, the supply demand equation is in our favor. Collectively, we have more power than the atomic bomb and can shut down entire cities if we so desire. The way that we harness are power is by breaking down the faction that exists within our service departments among fellow techs. In other words, we techs all have to unite to fight off the demons that our trying to control us. If we stand together and say NO, then NO is what it will be. The problem is that we techs are all divided and there is no solidarity. Management recognizes this and takes advantage of our weakness. Management promotes and creates factions, to purposely weaken us as a group, so that they can intimidate us and conquer their sinister objectives. Every service department is crafted the same way. This is how the faction breaks down. You have the privileged 20% of techs receiving so many extra perks that they are secretly loyal to management. Then you have the other 20% (like me) who has their fists up and are ready to battle. And finally, the remaining 60%, who either ate the cheese or is so scared to stand up that they are shaking in their boots. There you have it gentlemen, we can only blame ourselves for allowing are problems to prevail. Shame on us for brilliantly fixing everyone elses problems but not our own. You see...we really can fix things if we want to!
A quick word to those techs out there that we all know that say " quit whining and complaining, there is nothing you can do, just shut up and do your job, otherwise you will be replaced ". That type of an attitude can sink ships. Good technicians are not sitting at home waiting for the phone to ring. There is not only a diminishing supply of experienced techs worldwide but there is a shortage of good apprentices. The large volume of new HVAC equipment manufactured versus the long technician turnout time ratio adds to the current shortage problem.
All things said and simply put, we do not have to put up with any of the BS we are all currently subjected to.
Lets all join hands and show them who is boss! You can quickstart this whole process by having regular technician only meetings. Management just hates that, the thought that the technicians are re-grouping.
Best of luck to all of you and thanks for all your replies.
Streetsmarts Lead the Charge and we will follow....
Well Just for your info those privileged 20% ARE the real Chiller Tech's, Why do you think they are getting so much. Those guys are the ones making the company money and really know thier stuff. The rest of the "Chiller techs" aren't worth **** or just think they are chillers techs and are mostly good for cleaning tubes or a second man on a job. As for a real loss of HVAC Chiller knowledge thats not coming for atlest another 8-10 years. Many of the "old timers" are still around and have a good 3-5 years of work left in them and they still may work in the office when they can't tool anymore. You and the other 60% better shut up and do your job or you will be looking for a new one. The problem is there are only so many chiller's to support a Chiller groupOriginally posted by streetsmarts
Originally posted by cdo
Thanks Streetsmarts. Do I Know you?
Every service department is crafted the same way. This is how the faction breaks down. You have the privileged 20% of techs receiving so many extra perks that they are secretly loyal to management. Then you have the other 20% (like me) who has their fists up and are ready to battle. And finally, the remaining 60%, who either ate the cheese or is so scared to stand up that they are shaking in their boots.
and if your not in the 20% already then your in the dog pit with the rest fighting for that postion the old timner might leave behind some day. So keep fighting keep complaining and
In the mean time the smart guy is keeping his mouth shut and his ears open learning as much as possible. Guess who's getting into the top 20%. It's not going to be you, And the kicker is its your own fualt.
I work for one of the big 3 and it is great.We don't have a service manager but 2 of our guys are there as liasons between the office and us.We are a union shop and we are 10.00 an hour higher than the pipe fitters so wages are great.We are always busy and there is lots of time in jobs as we work closely with the sales guys.But we all stick together as one in the service dept, no brown nosing ass lickers to drag us down.Guys that are mediocre mechanics and that know it are the ones that cause strife in a service dept.I know I am a decent mechanic and I can get a job tomorrow, so I don't take sh!t from anyone because I would go somewhere else, that does not mean I am an Ahole to the office , try to be a premadonna and pick certain jobs.Not at all, I have a great job so why would I want to tank it.Good service guys are hard to find, mediocre ones are easier to find, JCI, will find this out because in 2 years they will be a mediocre service company again, and all there good guys that won't put up with there crap will go somewhere else, as I would.Imagine if you have been working on 123 chillers since 1990 for York and all of a sudden being told you can't work on them because you haven't had the JCI training.It is plain stupid, along with the 3 strikes your out rule.Give all your good chiller guys 3 strikes in the next year and see where you will be left standing, a 1/2 ass service company trying to keep customers happy.
Whats up out there?????