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Thread: housing market

  1. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by AStudent View Post
    Very true, and I am listening, but the whole idea of everything the other party
    does is wrong and everything my party does is right, is getting a little old.
    Astudent just because I offer up arguments against the progressives doesn't mean I haven't at one time vetted all political possibillities.

    With a effort towards objectivness I've studdied both liberal and Democrat view points and how their policies affect our society.

    Point is sooner or later you have to have the courage and conviction to chose a side and support the idealogy that best fits your personally.

    If the liberal Democrats have 3 good policies and 50 highly destructive policies I am not going to offer up my support for a party that will ultimately cause harm to the Country my kids and grand kids have to grow up in.

    The floating around and trying to be a people pleaser or to try and cherry pick from both parties ideas that you agree with isn't practical.

    Its not how politics work.

    So I've chosen a side, and I have decided to ignore the maybe 3 or 4 decent ideas the Democrats have ( I cant think of one but for arguments sake..) and suppport the party that best exemplifies my values.

    Get it ??

    Just saying you can only float in relative ville for so long.

  2. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by AStudent View Post
    Ok...I'm the one drinking the kool-aid...and the right is the best.

    You have convinced me.....

    "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED"
    ....and the libertarians are the ones smoking the green leaf--haha.

  3. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Six View Post
    Astudent just because I offer up arguments against the progressives doesn't mean I haven't at one time vetted all political possibillities.

    With a effort towards objectivness I've studdied both liberal and Democrat view points and how their policies affect our society.

    Point is sooner or later you have to have the courage and conviction to chose a side and support the idealogy that best fits your personally.

    If the liberal Democrats have 3 good policies and 50 highly destructive policies I am not going to offer up my support for a party that will ultimately cause harm to the Country my kids and grand kids have to grow up in.

    The floating around and trying to be a people pleaser or to try and cherry pick from both parties ideas that you agree with isn't practical.

    Its not how politics work.

    So I've chosen a side, and I have decided to ignore the maybe 3 or 4 decent ideas the Democrats have ( I cant think of one but for arguments sake..) and suppport the party that best exemplifies my values.

    Get it ??

    Just saying you can only float in relative ville for so long.
    If I may be so bold to add a thought:

    When choosing... one needs to put their idealistic hat away and put on their pragmatic and 'its GOTTA work' hat. To choose a political philosophy just because it feels good... with no track record of it working... well this seems to go along with the idea that one can p*ss into the wind without getting p**d upon... Ever see someone get away with that one?

    My point is: It has to WORK... or it is not a good idea. And history has more than enough track record of what works and what does not.
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  4. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by exreo View Post
    ....and the libertarians are the ones smoking the green leaf--haha.
    Actually, in GA's opinion, the Libertarians are the wiser ones... just hard to get the minions to wisen up when they do not want to... <grin>
    GA-HVAC-Tech

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  5. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by hearthman View Post
    Real estate markets are extremely regional. Even within one metropolitan area you can have polar opposites depending upon the type of housing, economy, local factors, etc. National real estate numbers are virtually useless. It is more of the overall picture of housing starts and the types of that housing, re-sales, foreclosures, short sales, rental conversions, etc. AND look at mfg. For instance, about 75% of the factory built fireplace market was from the new construction channel/ 25% remodeling. While that ratio may hold, the gross numbers tell a story. Installing distributors of these products have all but folded up. The few suvivors are hanging on by a thread. My old region closed 4 offices and cut staff by about 90%. Not much of a recovery. Even the work they get is at cut-throat margins so their net profit margin is below 10% in many cases, which is inconsistent with business survival. The few trades who do new construction work are getting raped not only on their margins but then are beat into a pulp over free warranty and service even when it clearly is not the fault of the product or installer. Around here, the Realtors are having trouble posting all their listings and don't know where to start with so many listings for a buyer to choose from. My daughter's row home has been on the market since June at $30K short and still has yet for one single buyer to even look at it because there is such a glut in the supply. Her house is in great shape btw. So save your breath telling me real estate is recovering. To get anywhere near tolerable, they will have to sell off a massive inventory first. Also, since nobody can afford to maintain their homes, these homes being sold are loaded with defects resulting in an increase in litigation with sellers, Realtors and Home Inspectors. New home buyers are having to accept getting screwed on eating defects they cannot afford to fix. We have a LOT of really crappy, sick houses out there and that problem is really growning worse. You guys see how people cut corners instead of fixing it the right way and not buying premium add-ons and upgrades.
    http://www.tampabay.com/news/busines...entals/1252624


    Yes the real estate market loses are regional, huge in some areas and less in others but now Freddie and Fannie are into rentals as well as Blackstone private equity fund,now with Ben's buy back program of 40 billion a month in MBS it will redefine the markets. This is what should have happened from the get go when the bubble started to burst. At least families even though will have to rent for life will have a roof over their heads.
    FEN

  6. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    Actually, in GA's opinion, the Libertarians are the wiser ones... just hard to get the minions to wisen up when they do not want to... <grin>
    Yes we are as America contracts even further due to debt.

    The markets should have been allowed to correct for themselves without goverment intervention. FEN
    FEN

  7. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by the mojo View Post
    http://www.tampabay.com/news/busines...entals/1252624


    Yes the real estate market loses are regional, huge in some areas and less in others but now Freddie and Fannie are into rentals as well as Blackstone private equity fund,now with Ben's buy back program of 40 billion a month in MBS it will redefine the markets. This is what should have happened from the get go when the bubble started to burst. At least families even though will have to rent for life will have a roof over their ..:'(.heads.
    What should have happened from the get go is Government housing policies to supply easy and cheap credit to minories and/or people with questionable credit should have never been implemented.

    Barney Franks American Affordable Housing Act and the Community Reinvestment were directly to blame for the sub-prime meltdown and the bubble.

    And all in the interest of "equality and fairness".

    By 1995 over 55% of loans bought and packaged off to investment banks by freddie abd Fannie HAD TO BE sub-prime.

    Bernakes buying off of toxic MBS accomplishes nothing positive and punishes people like me and my kids and my grand kids and their grand kids for stupid progressive redistributive policies.

    I didn't go and get a sub prime loan. But I and every other American that knew this was a terrible idea get to pay for it with a diminished dollar and a debt that will never be payed off and a crap economy.

    What good are rental properties when inflation, high rent because of high demand, a week dollar and no employment oppurtunities make it damn near impossible to pay rent ?

    Fannie and Freddie have been around since the 30s. The Affordable Housing Act was directly responsible for this mess and Obama and Bernake just threw gasoline on the bon fire.

  8. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Six View Post
    What should have happened from the get go is Government housing policies to supply easy and cheap credit to minories and/or people with questionable credit should have never been implemented.

    Barney Franks American Affordable Housing Act and the Community Reinvestment were directly to blame for the sub-prime meltdown and the bubble.

    And all in the interest of "equality and fairness".

    By 1995 over 55% of loans bought and packaged off to investment banks by freddie abd Fannie HAD TO BE sub-prime.

    Bernakes buying off of toxic MBS accomplishes nothing positive and punishes people like me and my kids and my grand kids and their grand kids for stupid progressive redistributive policies.

    I didn't go and get a sub prime loan. But I and every other American that knew this was a terrible idea get to pay for it with a diminished dollar and a debt that will never be payed off and a crap economy.

    What good are rental properties when inflation, high rent because of high demand, a week dollar and no employment oppurtunities make it damn near impossible to pay rent ?

    Fannie and Freddie have been around since the 30s. The Affordable Housing Act was directly responsible for this mess and Obama and Bernake just threw gasoline on the bon fire.
    This is a popular misconception that is regularly spewed from the right.
    Could some one please explain how the gov forced these poor little banks to slice and dice bad paper and get it rated AAA to sell to unsuspecting greedy buyers, if you can't don't waste my time blaming government and the borrowers. The folks that took out the loans were usually guided in their choice by brokers and obviously made a mistake, but the resale of these debts (or the inability to) is what locked up the system.

  9. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by the mojo View Post
    http://www.tampabay.com/news/busines...entals/1252624


    Yes the real estate market loses are regional, huge in some areas and less in others but now Freddie and Fannie are into rentals as well as Blackstone private equity fund,now with Ben's buy back program of 40 billion a month in MBS it will redefine the markets. This is what should have happened from the get go when the bubble started to burst. At least families even though will have to rent for life will have a roof over their heads.
    Pardon me... but that is NOT the American Dream...

    Sounds like settling for a PBJ sandwich... when one could have a LOT more.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

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  10. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by netsalt View Post
    This is a popular misconception that is regularly spewed from the right.
    Could some one please explain how the gov forced these poor little banks to slice and dice bad paper and get it rated AAA to sell to unsuspecting greedy buyers, if you can't don't waste my time blaming government and the borrowers. The folks that took out the loans were usually guided in their choice by brokers and obviously made a mistake, but the resale of these debts (or the inability to) is what locked up the system.
    Would you go on record as saying you vote for Mitt if someone agreed to?

    What I am saying is: If the argument could (not was) posted... would you agree in advance to guarantee you would vote for Mitt?

    Put your vote where your mouth is guy...
    GA-HVAC-Tech

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    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

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  11. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by netsalt View Post
    Could some one please explain how the gov forced these poor little banks to slice and dice bad paper and get it rated AAA to sell to unsuspecting greedy buyers, if you can't don't waste my time blaming government and the borrowers.
    The government guaranteed the loans, regardless of risk.

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  12. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by netsalt View Post
    This is a popular misconception that is

    regularly spewed from the right.
    Could some one please explain how the gov forced these poor little banks to slice and dice bad paper and get it rated AAA to sell to unsuspecting greedy buyers, if you can't don't waste my time blaming government and the borrowers. The folks that took out the loans were usually guided in their choice by brokers and obviously made a mistake, but the resale of these debts (or the inability to) is what locked up the system.
    Net I've explained it over and over. Fannie and Freddie were forced to buy sub-prime loans under the Affordable Housing Act.

    Fannie and Freddie ( where ex-democrat politicians go to get richer ) bundled up those mortages with good mortages and sold them off to investment banks to FUND THE SUB-PRIME MARKET.

    With out the derivitives Barney Franks Affordable Housing Act would be dead in the water.

    The banks under duress from Congress and the justice dep. were forced to participate with the exception of one.

    Wells Fargo who just got fined 175 million for not loaning to people with crap credit. Of course Obamas justice dept called it "discrimination"

    You libz are sick people. NOT DISCRIMINATING ON THE BASIS OF CREDIT SCORES IS WHAT GOT US INTO THIS MESS.

    You libs stupidly blame the banks but ignore the driving force and the people who forced sub-prime on the rest of us and it wasn't Conservatives.

  13. #39
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    If we are all to accept that the crash was caused by government intervention then explain how the rating agencies were in on it. Most investors would not have taken on such risky investments without a decent payout - unless the ratings were rigged to make it appear that the risk was minimal. The fact remains that even if these loans were forced by a government entity they were resold under false pretenses - AAA should be AAA - Junk is Junk.

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