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  1. #365
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    Quote Originally Posted by corny View Post
    Kennedy will end up in hell too.......probably sharing a shovel with Khrushchev.
    So you don't see any difference between the head of the evil empire and the last Democrat President who cared for this country and not our enemies and or the 3rd world. Nice to know where your loyalties lie there corny. Gees you never do cease to amaze me with your crazy views. Thank you very much
    "I could have ended the war in a month. I could have made North Vietnam look like a mud puddle."
    "I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them. It is not to inaugurate new programs, but to cancel old ones that do violence to the Constitution."
    Barry Goldwater

  2. #366
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    Quote Originally Posted by scrogdog View Post
    Again, this is EXACTLY why one shouldn't trust truthers with any type of evidence whatsoever!

    You think that metal is the only thing that can get red hot and flow? My gawd.

    Here's a note to the clueless, MANY things can do that. In fact PLASTICS do that. How many computers do you think were in that building? Tons of soft metal inside them THAT IS NOT ALUMINUM. There's also TONS of plastic WHICH RUNS RED HOT.

    That stream was, logically, a mixture of things including plastics and various types of soft metals.

    Even in the my can of corn example earlier... not only did it explode, but it also showered our tents and sleeping bags with RED HOT KERNALS OF CORN.

    Wow. Just wow.

    Yes, it's a very old strategy where we say that if you can't even tell what color a car was in your key point of testimony, then we must at least consider what other perceptions you have that are wrong. Perfectly valid thing, to show that the arguments and "facts" shown by somone are not credible.

    Doctored photos make my case even more.
    The problem with your investigative technique is that you start with an answer and use science and logic very loosely to prove what you think already happened.

    How hard would it be to wrap radio controlled thermite belts around the forty-seven vertical supports in the wee hours of the morning when the building was empty? You’d only have to get past the security system. Not very hard at all. And, all the forewarning intelligence of the attack was already known by the Israeli spies and presumably by many others.

    As for plastic, I’ve thrown plastic in campfires before. It melts and vaporizes immediately. Have you seen plastic glow and flow like molten steel? If so, where?

    Getting the color of a car wrong does not lead one to believe a car was not seen at all. That is a stretch. But most of your argument is a stretch. You fill in too many blanks with your predisposition.

    If you were a prosecutor you would be featured on one of those courtroom reenactment shows where you put the wrong guy in prison just because you thought he was guilty and then manufactured a case to convict him. In other words you are too convinced by your opinion in the absence of evidence.

    A building that was designed to be struck by a 707 airliner and to withstand the force of a 140mph hurricane has all of its forty seven vertical supports bucket by a mere 50 minute fire, when no fire in history ever fell a building. And that is normal to you because someone told you it is normal?

  3. #367
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    Funny why all the effort, expense and chance of getting caught for little old Building 7 when the real prize the WTC is being taken out by the planes flown by Al Qaeda?

    You would have a least a few hundred folks who are very well paid and trained to do it and trust that they would not get religion and spill the beans while they are doing it or years later. They would also have to be dumb as a rock not to believe they would also not get killed for their efforts in order for the "truth" never to be revealed. Also why even waste this massive effort since most likely the building would come down anyhow which it did along with several other building with the falling of the WTC? Remember the WTC was the prize anyhow. Geez.

    It is completely illogical for an inside conspiracy to happen on the destruction of Building 7 or any other building Pentagon included on 911. Yeah all the evidence both scientific as scrooge has so meticulously pointed out and logical as I have just stated that their was no conspiracy at all other than Al Qaeda. So this conspiracy "theory" is complete BS and completely absurd on any basis so why even talk about it is beyond me much less believe in it. I had rather believe in flying saucers than this stupid idea. Thank you, thank you very much
    "I could have ended the war in a month. I could have made North Vietnam look like a mud puddle."
    "I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them. It is not to inaugurate new programs, but to cancel old ones that do violence to the Constitution."
    Barry Goldwater

  4. #368
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post
    The problem with your investigative technique is that you start with an answer and use science and logic very loosely to prove what you think already happened.
    Science does not prove things, it explains them. These papers, reviewed by hundreds of thousands of scientists worldwide are ready for you to read them.

    How hard would it be to wrap radio controlled thermite belts around the forty-seven vertical supports in the wee hours of the morning when the building was empty? You’d only have to get past the security system. Not very hard at all. And, all the forewarning intelligence of the attack was already known by the Israeli spies and presumably by many others.
    Not hard? You are talking about REMOVING WALLS AND REPLACING THEM without anyone detecting anything wrong! Yeah, that's some brilliant logic there, as usual.

    As for plastic, I’ve thrown plastic in campfires before. It melts and vaporizes immediately. Have you seen plastic glow and flow like molten steel? If so, where?
    Well, then, I can now definitively state for a FACT that no molten steel was present at WTC. How do I know this? Becuase I have never personally seen steel melt, therefore it doesn't.

    More brilliant truther logic there. Materials scientists say it gets red hot and melt. The chemical properties of things tells us how things react. THAT'S WHAT MATERIALS SCIENCE IS ALL ABOUT.

    Getting the color of a car wrong does not lead one to believe a car was not seen at all. That is a stretch. But most of your argument is a stretch. You fill in too many blanks with your predisposition.
    No, but it does mean that if you are mistaken about the color, you are likely going to be mistaken about other perceptions.

    If you were a prosecutor you would be featured on one of those courtroom reenactment shows where you put the wrong guy in prison just because you thought he was guilty and then manufactured a case to convict him. In other words you are too convinced by your opinion in the absence of evidence.
    I've posted a TON of evidence that you ignored.

    A building that was designed to be struck by a 707 airliner and to withstand the force of a 140mph hurricane has all of its forty seven vertical supports bucket by a mere 50 minute fire, when no fire in history ever fell a building. And that is normal to you because someone told you it is normal?
    50 minute fire is another truther lie. Visual evidence, let's see how about all that EFFING SMOKE. How is smoke generated brian? What does the color of the smoke tell us Brian? So nothing else caught on fire, Brian? Just the fuel burned but nothing else caught fire?

    Yes, I believe what someone said, when it was said by several of the top scientists in the field and then peer reviewed by hundreds of thousand of others. That's versus your two physicists one of whom posted a picture of "molten" metal being picked up by a crane claw and the other flat out lied about the reaction speed of thermite and was removed from his university post BECAUSE WE DON'T WANT LIARS TEACHING OUR KIDS.

    That the truthers are in fact con-artists has been amply demonstrated over and over again at this point. Oh yes, then there's that intentionally doctored photo thing.
    "Social networking" is an oxymoron.

  5. #369
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    You'll enjoy this, Glenn.

    THE MEETING!

    The suggestion that someone would need to fly airplanes into two buildings and blow them up is in itself absurd. Could you imagine the meeting?...

    Government: We want to cause a tragedy so great the American people will blindly follow us into war... What do you think gentlemen...

    Accomplice #1: Well, the Towers are a perfect choice.. It's been bombed before. We can just blame Osama again. We've been priming the American people by having him blow up our warships and our buildings in other countries.

    Government: Yeah, good idea! How will we do that?

    Accomplice #1: We can hire Osama to get some of his friends to fly planes into it!

    Accomplice #2: Wait... I have a better idea, We can BOMB the buildings!

    Accomplice #1: Well, that means placing enough bombs into two 110 story buildings. That's going to take a lot of man power and risk us being uncovered...

    Accomplice #2: Yeah, but that way, you’re sure to knock them down. Besides, maybe the hijackers won’t make it to the target. Maybe they'll be uncovered!

    Accomplice #1: But you don't need to knock them down, all you need is the horrific sight of the planes hitting the buildings. People will get the message. It's an attack on American soil. We'll also have people like the blind sheik to cover for us. We'll even put a guy on a train with evidence.

    Your plan isn't perfect either, you know. Do I have to remind you of Operation Towel Pop? We already tried to embarrass Clinton by knocking it down and failed.

    Accomplice #2: Yeah, our Bay of Pigs, but I say the only way they can get the message is if we knock them down.

    Accomplice #1: Do not

    Accomplice #2: Do too

    Accomplice #1: Do not

    Accomplice #2: Do too

    Accomplice #1: Do not

    Accomplice #2: Do too

    Government: Gentlemen, gentlemen... Please... What the hell, we'll just do both! :blink: How do we do that? I mean, how do you keep explosions from showing up on TV? We're going to have to investigate this at some point. How do we cover up the scene?

    Accomplice #2: But why not just knock it dow...

    Government: I've made my decision. Continue...

    Accomplice #2: OK.. We install charges on every floor so that after the planes hit, we blow each floor under the crash floor one by one, very fast to simulate pancaking. We'll let the building burn a while just for effect. This will also give time for the trusses to sag making it LOOK like a fire caused the building to fall.

    Accomplice #1: Nice touch...

    Accomplice #2: Why, thank you. ...We'll set a charge off in the middle of the building AFTER the top is on its way down so everyone thinks the puffs of debris coming from the windows are from the tremendous hypodermic needle like pressure blowing debris from the weakest point in the building.

    Government: What about the sound of explosions? Isn't that a dead giveaway?

    Accomplice #2: No problem, We'll just let them think it's normal electrical explosions like transformers blowing up or the initial concrete and steel and floors hitting the floors below.

    Accomplice #1: Yeah, it could also be the steel columns snapping like twigs from the tremendous weight of the floors above... Don't worry, we have disinformation specialists in key internet forums.

    Government: WOW, You guys think of everything.. What about Building 7? Can we take that out at the same time?

    Accomplice #1: We won’t be able to fly planes into it, that's for sure...

    Accomplice #2: Leave it to me. If we set off the explosions just right, we can have one of the towers hit Building 7, missing the two next to it. After that, we can set fires on the bottom floors and let it burn for a while, you know, to make it look possible for a normal collapse. I'll call my agent in the fire department to get everyone out before we blow it. I'll figure a way to make the floors look buckled for effect as well.

    Government: Amazing ... I also want to take out the Pentagon. Any suggestions?

    Accomplice #1: What we'll do is hijack a plane just for effect, then fire a missile at the Pentagon. A bunker buster.

    Government: But what about the people on the plane?

    Accomplice #1: We'll land the plane in area 51, then shoot them all.

    Government: Why not use the plane instead of the missile? That way, you take care of all the evidence at the same time... People on the highway can also see the planes hit. If you use a missile, there's going to be a lot of witnesses who saw a missile and not a plane.

    Accomplice #1: Err... ah, don't worry about these small details. I have an undercover op in the DC police department who will take the names down and shot them all.

    Government: How are you going to get all the people involved in this? Bush isn't exactly loved you know..

    Accomplice #1: Don't worry, psych-ops will take care of the brainwashing of the American people. As for the media, we control the left and the right!

    Government: GREAT! Nice work all! Let’s make the target date Sept 11, 2001.
    "Social networking" is an oxymoron.

  6. #370
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    Quote Originally Posted by scrogdog View Post
    You'll enjoy this, Glenn.

    THE MEETING!

    The suggestion that someone would need to fly airplanes into two buildings and blow them up is in itself absurd. Could you imagine the meeting?...

    Government: We want to cause a tragedy so great the American people will blindly follow us into war... What do you think gentlemen...

    Accomplice #1: Well, the Towers are a perfect choice.. It's been bombed before. We can just blame Osama again. We've been priming the American people by having him blow up our warships and our buildings in other countries.

    Government: Yeah, good idea! How will we do that?

    Accomplice #1: We can hire Osama to get some of his friends to fly planes into it!

    Accomplice #2: Wait... I have a better idea, We can BOMB the buildings!

    Accomplice #1: Well, that means placing enough bombs into two 110 story buildings. That's going to take a lot of man power and risk us being uncovered...

    Accomplice #2: Yeah, but that way, you’re sure to knock them down. Besides, maybe the hijackers won’t make it to the target. Maybe they'll be uncovered!

    Accomplice #1: But you don't need to knock them down, all you need is the horrific sight of the planes hitting the buildings. People will get the message. It's an attack on American soil. We'll also have people like the blind sheik to cover for us. We'll even put a guy on a train with evidence.

    Your plan isn't perfect either, you know. Do I have to remind you of Operation Towel Pop? We already tried to embarrass Clinton by knocking it down and failed.

    Accomplice #2: Yeah, our Bay of Pigs, but I say the only way they can get the message is if we knock them down.

    Accomplice #1: Do not

    Accomplice #2: Do too

    Accomplice #1: Do not

    Accomplice #2: Do too

    Accomplice #1: Do not

    Accomplice #2: Do too

    Government: Gentlemen, gentlemen... Please... What the hell, we'll just do both! :blink: How do we do that? I mean, how do you keep explosions from showing up on TV? We're going to have to investigate this at some point. How do we cover up the scene?

    Accomplice #2: But why not just knock it dow...

    Government: I've made my decision. Continue...

    Accomplice #2: OK.. We install charges on every floor so that after the planes hit, we blow each floor under the crash floor one by one, very fast to simulate pancaking. We'll let the building burn a while just for effect. This will also give time for the trusses to sag making it LOOK like a fire caused the building to fall.

    Accomplice #1: Nice touch...

    Accomplice #2: Why, thank you. ...We'll set a charge off in the middle of the building AFTER the top is on its way down so everyone thinks the puffs of debris coming from the windows are from the tremendous hypodermic needle like pressure blowing debris from the weakest point in the building.

    Government: What about the sound of explosions? Isn't that a dead giveaway?

    Accomplice #2: No problem, We'll just let them think it's normal electrical explosions like transformers blowing up or the initial concrete and steel and floors hitting the floors below.

    Accomplice #1: Yeah, it could also be the steel columns snapping like twigs from the tremendous weight of the floors above... Don't worry, we have disinformation specialists in key internet forums.

    Government: WOW, You guys think of everything.. What about Building 7? Can we take that out at the same time?

    Accomplice #1: We won’t be able to fly planes into it, that's for sure...

    Accomplice #2: Leave it to me. If we set off the explosions just right, we can have one of the towers hit Building 7, missing the two next to it. After that, we can set fires on the bottom floors and let it burn for a while, you know, to make it look possible for a normal collapse. I'll call my agent in the fire department to get everyone out before we blow it. I'll figure a way to make the floors look buckled for effect as well.

    Government: Amazing ... I also want to take out the Pentagon. Any suggestions?

    Accomplice #1: What we'll do is hijack a plane just for effect, then fire a missile at the Pentagon. A bunker buster.

    Government: But what about the people on the plane?

    Accomplice #1: We'll land the plane in area 51, then shoot them all.

    Government: Why not use the plane instead of the missile? That way, you take care of all the evidence at the same time... People on the highway can also see the planes hit. If you use a missile, there's going to be a lot of witnesses who saw a missile and not a plane.

    Accomplice #1: Err... ah, don't worry about these small details. I have an undercover op in the DC police department who will take the names down and shot them all.

    Government: How are you going to get all the people involved in this? Bush isn't exactly loved you know..

    Accomplice #1: Don't worry, psych-ops will take care of the brainwashing of the American people. As for the media, we control the left and the right!

    Government: GREAT! Nice work all! Let’s make the target date Sept 11, 2001.
    After all that you still claim you can look at this objectively?

  7. #371
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    Lol, you seem to have had your funny bone removed.

    Along with your logic bone.
    "Social networking" is an oxymoron.

  8. #372
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    Quote Originally Posted by scrogdog View Post
    Science does not prove things, it explains them. These papers, reviewed by hundreds of thousands of scientists worldwide are ready for you to read them.



    Not hard? You are talking about REMOVING WALLS AND REPLACING THEM without anyone detecting anything wrong! Yeah, that's some brilliant logic there, as usual.



    Well, then, I can now definitively state for a FACT that no molten steel was present at WTC. How do I know this? Becuase I have never personally seen steel melt, therefore it doesn't.

    More brilliant truther logic there. Materials scientists say it gets red hot and melt. The chemical properties of things tells us how things react. THAT'S WHAT MATERIALS SCIENCE IS ALL ABOUT.



    No, but it does mean that if you are mistaken about the color, you are likely going to be mistaken about other perceptions.



    I've posted a TON of evidence that you ignored.



    50 minute fire is another truther lie. Visual evidence, let's see how about all that EFFING SMOKE. How is smoke generated brian? What does the color of the smoke tell us Brian? So nothing else caught on fire, Brian? Just the fuel burned but nothing else caught fire?

    Yes, I believe what someone said, when it was said by several of the top scientists in the field and then peer reviewed by hundreds of thousand of others. That's versus your two physicists one of whom posted a picture of "molten" metal being picked up by a crane claw and the other flat out lied about the reaction speed of thermite and was removed from his university post BECAUSE WE DON'T WANT LIARS TEACHING OUR KIDS.

    That the truthers are in fact con-artists has been amply demonstrated over and over again at this point. Oh yes, then there's that intentionally doctored photo thing.
    Most of your comments are ridiculous. Besides I’m arguing with someone with an extreme amount of bias (closed mindedness) who doesn't even know how long it took the South Tower to fall after being hit.

  9. #373
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    Right. All of science and scientists world wide are ridiculous just because you say so.

    Got it.

    Your people have been demonstrated as liars. But I'm the closed minded one.

    Got it.

    How about addressing those lies one by one?

  10. #374
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    Quote Originally Posted by scrogdog View Post
    Right. All of science and scientists world wide are ridiculous just because you say so.

    Got it.

    Your people have been demonstrated as liars. But I'm the closed minded one.

    Got it.

    How about addressing those lies one by one?
    So how long did it take the South Tower to collapse?

  11. #375
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    Forget the towers for a minute, had anyone even wondered or explained how those guys navigated to those towers ??

    I have flown those aircrafts in a simulator, and manually navigating those planes and finding your target aint easy.

    Roy
    "The perfect Totalitarian State is one where the political bosses, and their army of managers, control a population of slaves, who do not have to be coerced, because they love their servitude"

  12. #376
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    Just under 50 minutes. That's not what you said, though. You said the fire lasted 50 minutes.

    Did the fire go out?

    Besides, what's your point anyway? Steel deforms and becomes brittle after only a few minutes exposure. If you'd read anything at all on the matter, including what I've posted, you'd know that already.

    So, about those lies...
    "Social networking" is an oxymoron.

  13. #377
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    Quote Originally Posted by royc View Post
    Forget the towers for a minute, had anyone even wondered or explained how those guys navigated to those towers ??

    I have flown those aircrafts in a simulator, and manually navigating those planes and finding your target aint easy.

    Roy
    I'm not a pilot so I can't speak to this, but it is said that the perps were pilots who trained on Microsoft's simulator. In the article I read, written by a pilot, he didn't seem to think that it was unusual or strange.

    I'll see if I can find it.

    Also, it should be noted that the towers were subsequently removed from the sim post 9/11. Might not be relevant, but it would seem that at least the designers had to acknowledge the possibility that thier use of the simulator was useful to them.

    Though, on another level, removing them from the sim doesn't bring them back. So, I guess they just didn't want people to replay the accident over and over.
    "Social networking" is an oxymoron.

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